Attempted rape at university (sensitive)

[CanadianPacific]

Due to the very sensitive nature of this post I have name-changed (sorry) but I really need to chat this through. I'm not sure whether AIBU is actually the right place for this either but I am hoping for traffic.

My daughter is in her first year at a London University. She is in uni accommodation with 100's of others (all split between several buildings on same campus).

On her floor there are approx. 18 students with a male/female split.

They all seem like a very friendly and sociable bunch with no real issues until recently.

One of the male students has become more and more aggressive towards the female students and there have been a lot of misogynistic comments etc. A few of the female students have said that they feel very uncomfortable around him and some of the male students have approached him about his behaviour.

Over the past few weeks however, things have escalated. He accompanied one girl back to her room and attempted to rape her. She managed to defend herself and get him off and he left.

Other girls have reported that he would try to escort them back to their rooms and he seemed to pick out those that had been drinking heavily.

When challenged, he became very aggressive.

This has now been reported to the college and they seem to have acted very quickly. All of the students involved were asked to provide written statements (including my DD and several male students who have witnessed some of his behaviour).

He has been spoken to by the staff and tomorrow he will be moved out of this accommodation into a nearby block (on the same campus).

The girl who he attempted to rape has received a lot of support but has been told by the college that if she reports the attempted rape to the police and he is subsequently found 'not guilty' (which is likely as it's her word against his) then she could find herself expelled from the university.

So she has decided not to report it

I'm sure that the college have/are doing all they can but I feel so uneasy about this.

I think it's appalling that she is being threatened with expulsion.

He is now going to be moved into a new accommodation block with female students who no doubt, will be unaware of his reputation.

My DD and the other female students do not feel safe

I'm not really sure what I am asking here, I just feel very uncomfortable with the outcome but genuinely don't know what else the college can do.

Given the number of people who have reported his behaviour, don't they have enough to expel him and deport him back to his home country?

Your calm and reasoned thoughts please x

She needs to talk to the NUS and rape crisis (number normally on the back of doors on campus).

The university is wrong on so many levels.

Apparently the uni spoke to the police themselves to get some advice, not sure how true this is though.

My daughter is very angry and pretty concerned about her personal safety. He will still be on campus and could bump into him at any time. They all have these plastic entry cards and everyone can access each others 'block' and the communal areas within.

I never understand why these things are just dealt with by colleges.

It's a police matter, attempted rape is a crime and should be reported as such.

If he is French his fees would be the same as a uk student, if he is undergraduate he may have a student loan. Students drop out all the time for all sorts of reasons, I don't think the uni would be that bothered by maximum £27000. I definitely think they are discouraging her to protect their reputation, no uni wants a reputation for housing rapists.

The NUS is a good suggestion, also her own student union shoild have some sort of legal advsior. This is clearly outrageous so she should speak to as many people who will be onside as possible.

I've pmd you

I dont get how her reporting the crime to the police can be the uni's business? I wouod suggest she gets legal advice and also asks them to put it in writing, as they may back down if they think she is as likely to sue as he is

But universities are protecting rapists when they take this course of action.

This is a huge topic in the States where units have an appalling reputation for trying to deal with these situations themselves.

Unis, I mean

I'm not sure how UK laws work, but here in the US they have expelled girls for "false rape accusations". Every single one of them sued the schools and won. It cannot be considered "Not Guilty" until it makes it into court.

But to a more pertinent point here, you have several student testimonies about how this guy is a predator. That alone will evidence against him that it is within the realm of possibility that he did this.

They just don't want the statistic on their campus record. That's all it is. It's a corrupt practice so they can look at other parents and say "Nope! No rapes or sexual assault in our dorms".

But all this in house crap is well crap.

Attempted rape, harassment, sexist behaviour is actually against British law. It's not a uni matter it's a police matter.

I don't believe they have taken police advice. At least I hope not.

If he is a French student then it is possible that he is on an exchange programme (eg Erasmus) so the fee paying side of things may well not be relevant.

At the most charitable he is an immature arse.

Alternatively he is a sexual predator who is away from home country and feels that he can get away with this (and so far he has not been proved wrong).

The uni could put itself into a difficult position regarding their duty of care if they have acknowledged that his behaviour is inappropriate (moving him could be evidence of this) and he goes on to actually go through with an assault.

They need to go to the police. And then to some high-ups at uni. This is unbelievable and shocking that the uni have said this. Write a letter to the dean, cc'd to student services, and whichever idiots said she could potentially be expelled.

This doesn't surprise me. Not at all as serious but, as a mature student 16 years ago, I had all of my work stolen by an 'overseas student' It was caught on cctv and had my signature on the work. I was advised that if I reported it to the police I would fail my course. I didn't report, I got a pass rather than the distinction I was on course to get. The 'overseas student used my work to get on her degree course, they apparently knew this but gave her the benefit of the doubt? Money talks.
I wish I'd have done things differently.

Has she approached the women's officer on her SU? They may have access to other channels and resources. Agree it sounds as though the university is attempting a cover-up and a threat that forces a person not to report a crime is coercion in my view. Has the police been involved?

OP, this sounds like a horrible situation, but it's important to remember that you are getting information third/fourth/fifth hand.

I would be astonished if "the university" would formally take the position of advising someone who identifies as a a rape victim not to go to the police. Yes, universities hate bad publicity, but the potential risks of telling a rape victim not to go to the police are probably as great as the potential risks of the (alleged) rapist suing the university if the allegation is thrown out.

It would be interesting to know who the student actually spoke to - her personal tutor in her academic department? counsellor? a student support officer? someone in the hall of residence? - because it is very possible that she has sought advice from an unofficial source which has not been correct or helpful. This is a very serious matter which "the university" will take very seriously, and it's essential that the student has a formal conversation with the right person and gets the right advice, which should be recorded in writing and retained (confidentially, of course) on her student record. At my institution, this would be the Head of Student Support Services.

The student in question should also talk to her college's student union, who will have an advice unit which is independent from the university.

Re the fees issue, as a PP said, if he is a French national, he will be paying home fees. He could of course be on a "premium fees" course like an MBA where every student pays a high fee.

I cannot stress strongly enough that the student who has been assaulted must speak to the right person at the university and get formal, official advice. It shouldn't be necessary for her parents to get involved, but if there's any suspicion that she hasn't spoken to the right person, perhaps they should get in touch with a senior person at the university (nothing wrong with going straight to the VC) to find out who this person is and to arrange a priority appointment. And OP, if your daughter genuinely feels at risk, then she should demand to see the Head of Student Support or the equivalent to discuss the situation.

Believe me, the university does not want to find itself in a situation where a student who has already assaulted someone goes on to assault someone else, because they just moved him to a different hall of residence.

But Bluestocking why do you think the victim should attempt to resolve this within the university? It's not a matter for them but for the police.

There probably aren't any all-male accommodation blocks.

But the threat that she might be expelled is appalling. Only appropriate in the (rare) case of a proven malicious allegation.

Well, hopefully, the change will bring further reports! That is all that can be done right now!

bluestocking it was attempted rape not rape (still not OK obviously but just wanted to clarify that)

I am hearing this from my daughter who is one of the flatmates concerned. She has been on the receiving end of some of his behaviour and she was one of the students who had him 'try it on' (very persistently, forcefully trying to get her into her room etc) when she had been drinking.

They have all written formal statements with a number of staff present and there have been several 'meetings' with the students involved with various updates over the past few days. The last meeting today confirmed that he has received a warning, and is being removed to a neighbouring block.

It's almost well-nigh impossible to deport an EU national. That foul swine who murdered a headmaster at the school gates, if I could remember his name I would not repeat it, is still here because his mother is or was Italian.

The girl who he attempted to rape has received a lot of support but has been told by the college that if she reports the attempted rape to the police and he is subsequently found 'not guilty' (which is likely as it's her word against his) then she could find herself expelled from the university.

I find this really hard to believe. Are you sure you've not got some wires crossed? Honestly, they would be in such massive shit if they tried this. I wonder if it isn't someone trying to scare the girls by passing on lies about why they shouldn't report things. That, I could well believe.

Good question, Alice! Because I work at a university, I know that students tend to expect "the university" to sort out everything that happens on campus, even when it might seem more sensible to go straight to the police with it.

The student in question could still go to the police, but there wouldn't now be any forensic evidence, and it would be "her word against his" as they always say.

But Bluestocking why do you think the victim should attempt to resolve this within the university? It's not a matter for them but for the police.

Agreed.

The university has no power over a police matter. As I said earlier, of the girls that I've heard that were threatened or expelled were able to settle successfully out of court and get into a separate university with the money. They could have gone to the current one, but why would they want to?

If it were my daughter, I'd encourage her to go to the police, and get it in writing from the university if that is their official stance (it's not). Then if they expelled her, they'd need to put that in writing as well.

Typically, the default course of action is to expel the boy at the first police report to avoid any liability. Unfortunately it was abused by one or two girls, the boy's future career was ruined, and the girls got nothing. There's a very sad story where a boy was asked to help a girl out in her room, and she turned around and filed a rape report. He was proven innocent, but his friends no longer talked to him, his love interest dropped him like a rock, and he was expelled with no hope of getting into another university. I think he's still having trouble getting it all cleared because it's listed as expelled on the university record. The point is though, it's very rare for this to happen. Most women make honest reports, because there's a huge stigma for the girl as well to report a boy who everyone else thinks is a "great guy". So to threaten the girls like it's a common place thing is ridiculous.

Just to clarify, she wasn't told she might be expelled for reporting to police.

She was told that if she did and this male student then was subsequently found 'not guilty' then he could could file a complaint against her for harassment and then she could face expulsion.

Several students were told this by a councillor in this evenings meeting (they asked for clarification as couldn't quite believe what they had been told)

I am just trying to establish exactly which members of staff have been involved. I believe that it has been someone very high up in accommodation services and also student support/councillor but just waiting to confirm this.

Thanks Bluestocking. I do think if students expect that, it's very misguided. A uni has no jurisdiction in such matters.

Whilst there wouldn't be any forensic evidence (and often forensics don't prove anything in a rape case anyway), it's still worth going to the police, if the victim wants to. There could be CCTV plus corroborating statements from the other students.

I agree that this should be a police matter but if the male student then made a complaint to the uni about harassment then it would revert back to being a uni matter and that seems to be where the issue is and why she is not going to report (because of the risk of expulsion)