To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

[drudgetrudy]

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Hak

By way of example, there was a thread in which the poster was upset by an unwelcome comment made by an elderly man. Everyone agreed it was rude but it was put forward by posters that they had parents of the same age with dementia/Alzheimer's who may well have also made a similar comment so it might not have deliberate.

The responses would have been different if the comment had been made by someone not of that age.

Age is rarely the most relevant factor, that isn't what I'm saying. Just that it can be relevant.

I do think at posts which describe people in their 50's and 60's as old/elderly. My parents are almost in that age bracket and are anything but. As are a lot of people I work with.

[Hakluyt]

Well, I suppose. But even that is suggesting that older people aren't individuals. Yes,he may have had dementia. He may also have been a bastard.

Obviously, if anyone says something wildly offensive and out of context it's worth thinking about possible health/mental health issues. Regardless of age.

Any more?

[ProfYaffle]

Mrsstar challenged til I'm blue in the face but it makes no difference. tbh I don't really use them very much any more for this exact reason.

[Mehitabel6]

I agree, there can be mental health issues at any age.

[NancyRaygun]

But you can go too far with the 'individual' thing. As humans we do go through phases and it helps people to know that others have been where they are and come out the other side - for example when we talk about badly behaved toddlers or teens. Obviously there are some issues that require more thought and insight than just "oh, all 14/15 years olds go through that" but a vast majority of the time having people say "oh yes. I remember the Terrible Twos/Fucking Fours etc" really can help.
So, unfortunately there DOES seem to be a phase of life for women when they hit their 50's/60's where they become more intolerant (or less tolerant I should say) and a bit "old trout". NOT EVERYONE, its a cliche, but all satire has a basis in truth.
Just like child bearing women become hideously self absorbed, and elderly women become brilliantly risqué and take up smoking and gambling etc (my favourite 'phase')
Men also act like selfish arses when they gat a bit older in my opinion. NOT ALL MEN, but as a generalisation I think that is true!
Unfortunately for women the English language is LITTERED with pejorative terms for them. If there was a snappy phrase for selfish, grumpy, intolerant and rude older men we'd probably use it too?

[Hakluyt]

"So, unfortunately there DOES seem to be a phase of life for women when they hit their 50's/60's where they become more intolerant (or less tolerant I should say) and a bit "old trout". NOT EVERYONE, its a cliche, but all satire has a basis in truth. "

Jesus Christ.

Case closed.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Hak

I do have other things to do other than list examples for you.

[NancyRaygun]

OK Hakluyt I am sorry to offend - but we call women out on here for all sorts of age related things. It's a way of generalising.

I actually agree with you, it's not right and should be challenged but its the language that is against us, its just such common parlance to add "old" to any slur against women. People use it without thinking.

But can you see my point a bit?
Toddlers ARE demanding
Teens ARE selfish
Middle aged women AND MEN can be grumpy

why is that wrong?? Genuinely?

[ginslinger]

Yes I find the ageism here annoying in my 59-year-old old biddy way

[Celticlass2]

Very well put Nancy I agree there is a lot of ageism out there, but imo, it's directed at teenagers, particularly teenage boys.

[drudgetrudy]

I work with teenagers and also deplore generalisations made about that group but what I read on here last night were a load of insults directed at older people.
It was the dismissive language that got to me.

"Become more intolerant and a bit old trout"-gotcha! Gross generalisation.

[Mehitabel6]

I find it very offensive to be told that you become less tolerant as you get older. I go on gransnet occasionally and find them much more tolerant and sensible. I hardly find anything to respond to because it has generally been said- unlike MN where I feel a need to put another side when posters are so dogmatic and dismissive of other views.

[Mehitabel6]

I think you get more tolerant with age and experience, you realise few things are black and white but there are lots of shades of grey.

[crumblebumblebee]

Generalising?! More like negatively generalising aka stereotyping.

[MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom]

There is a lot of ageism on here. It seems that if you're not 25-55 you don't fit in.

A thread the other day was a prime example, a young woman posting about a situation where there was blame on both sides but more on the other side, but people immediately leapt on the OP, and a lot of comments were relating to maturity and her age - she was 22 or 23 if I remember rightly.

I sometimes wonder if the average MNer realises how many under 25s and over 55s use these forums, before they start blaming everything on 'being so young' or 'old trout'.

[Mrsstarlord]

I think the difference is that there are physical changes going on in toddlers and teenagers which underpin particular characteristics - for example hormones and neurological changes which make it hard to process information or be aware of other people. Doesn't mean that we should generalise and be dismissive of them all though. I Genuinely don't see the generalisations you talk about in older people though. And can't see that there would be any reason for the things you describe. Also don't see whatever it was you said about child rearing women.

[NancyRaygun]

Ahh drudgetrudy I did add the capitalised NOT EVERYONE.

But some do, just like some teenagers are rude/lazy/surly- all the cliches.

It is a shame that so much of our language is cliche but it's a shorthand we do use.

I have met and am related to 60 year old women who are not in the least bit intolerant or unkind - I am simply saying that as a group that is the stereotype. Which is annoying - but its annoying for teens to be lumped in a group, and if toddlers could stop colouring on the wall long enough I reckon THEY would be offended to be lumped together too.

It doesn't help that the representation of that (older women) age group in the media is so dire.

But I have also met some really grumpy sows that DO fit the stereotype. You also have only got to read a MiL thread to see the stereotype being reinforced in spades.

[drudgetrudy]

Yes Nancy it is stereotyping but it was running rampant last night and being used to dismiss people. If stereotypes of gay people or another group had been used in this way people would have been appalled and it would have been more strongly challenged.
If someone had been talking about teenagers and other people were posting "They're all selfish, inconsiderate little b*ards"-how do you think that would have gone down.
Personally I deplore stereotyping to put anyone down.

[magimedi]

Thank you for starting this thread, drudgetrudy.

I am appalled by the ageism on this forum, especially as it is a place that is so tolerant of sexuality, religion & race.

Being an optomistic, cheery nearly 60 year old I was delighted that MNHQ deleted the thread about 'ELderly Drivers' with this comment:

" This thread is not really in the spirit of the site."

I hope they come on this thread & give their views & stance on ageism.

[Mehitabel6]

I wish they could come on. They could apologise for having a chapter headed 'the old biddies on the bus' for a start.

[drudgetrudy]

Thanks magimedi I'm pleased to hear that that thread was deleted and I also hope MNHQ make their stance on all discriminatory comments clear.
It is in their policy that ageism, along with racism, sexism and homophobia is unacceptable.

[Mehitabel6]

I am glad it was deleted. I saw it but didn't read it- I thought it was a terrible thread to start and I would get annoyed.

[NancyRaygun]

If stereotypes of gay people or another group had been used in this way people would have been appalled and it would have been more strongly challenged

Yes, I completely take your point. It is a bit of an "accepted bias" which is wrong.

[Mehitabel6]

There have been threads where people are annoyed that old people dare shop at lunch time-apparently they have nothing to do with their time and can go when they don't inconvenience workers! Regardless of the fact they may be older workers or have 101 things to fit in that day.

[solidussnake]

It happens regularly. There's a lot of MNers who don't like young people in their early 20s who don't have dc or dh. I hate stereotyping. AIBU is a place where people tread on eggshells, careful not to offend anyone, but manage to put down whole groups of people. On MN, that's mainly young people, old people and men! for no reason sometimes. There's a lot of man-hating for no reason on here.
Say if I went on a thread about teenage DCs and I chime in with some advice as to how my mother handled it, I say "well a few years ago when I was [insert age here]..." they really, really don't like it.
Everyone has opinions, experiences & advice; everyone can bring something to the thread. The elderly drivers thread really annoyed me because they grouped them all together... why? What was the OP trying to accomplish? A lot of the threads must be wind ups. I've never seen homophobia on here though.
Everyone is different. Here's some examples from the top of my head.
MOST toddlers are demanding. I wasn't. I've never wanted nor asked for anything. I've never been cheeky and if I did I got a smacked bum! god forbid i say that because people will generalise my mum's generation as being child abusers even though they weren't
As a teen, no, I didn't listen most of the time. But I was always respectful and always thought before I spoke and put others needs above my own. I was far from selfish.

generalising is something that we all do as human beings, but there are 7 billion people on this planet, thats 7 billion different experiences. Everyone is different and everyone can bring something to the table. Why there's a lot of bullying to do with age and sex on here is ridiculous. OH! and god forbid you post as a man on here! There are some genuine problems by men. but on AIBU, everything is a man's fault. A man could be desperately seeking advice but would pretty much get the shit ripped out of him. For being a man.