To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

[drudgetrudy]

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.

[DidoTheDodo]

YY gnushoes

I'd like to see as little tolerance for ageist language and behaviour as there is for any and every other "ism" on MN. And that is both MNHQ and perhaps more especially, all forum users.

[Fallingovercliffs]

Yes, Hakluyt when they are 50 or 60. I'm not saying that's 'old' but it's a stage of life where a lot of people start to develop a bit more understanding and to realise that always rushing around and being in an impatient hurry isn't necessarily a sign that you're busier or more important than anyone else; or that elderly people are just in the way, have all the time in the world, have nothing salient to say, or no interesting views on life and the contemporary world.

[ginnycreeper5]

Younger women should care about this (and not just because it will happen to them pretty soon). It illustrates very clearly what is really valued about women, and and that should be a real concern for all - including those on here who blithely caricature older women as 'bitter', 'dried up' old biddies.

Devora, some women are worse than the men for making ageist comments - not realising that, as you say, pretty soon - they will also be that age.
It's true what you say - youth seems to be the thing that's really valued about women.

[ginnycreeper5]

What saddens me is that older men don't even seem to like older women to talk to (and they definitely don't fancy them).

Whenever there's a reality show on tv, whether it's BB, I'm a Celeb, whatever, you see it happen a lot.
The older men in the house usually clash horns with the older women, but they (older men) get on surprisingly well with the younger women,- why is that?

The next time there's a BB on - you watch!
It always happens.

I often get the feeling that the older men in the houseprobably don't like the older women because they are a reminder that the men are getting old! And they want to be 'all that' in front of the younger ones - impress them. -sad gits--

Therefore they are usually downright nasty to them and try to distance themselves, because they don't want to be associated with age at all.

To not be fancied much anymore is understandable (evolution and all that) but to not be liked either......
yes it's ageist. Towards Women.

[UptheChimney]

It's so deeply ingrained, and so tied up with sexism. It's an odd experience, getting to middle age and realising how quickly the world decides you're not worth bothering with

This

I must admit, I'm pretty put off by the ageism on MN. I think it seeps through in all sorts of ways, but I notice it most in many of the MiL threads. It's not obvious, but it's an assumption, that an older woman is always in the wrong. As someone who may well be a MiL in the foreseeable future (due to the age of my DS, not that he's about to marry), I look on these with increasing anxiety.

[ginnycreeper5]

To use the BB house again as an example of ageism at its best:

You get a group of people, consisting of:

Young women
Young men
Older men
Older women.

Within no time, the young women, young men and older men will be bonded 'together', (the older men quickly distance themselves/fall out with the older women), and the one or two token older women will be shunned and mocked and made out to be eccentric or looney to the public.

Think:
Jim Davidson - how he treated one of the Nolan sisters.
Face (from ATeam) - fairly nasty to Carol Malone (the viewers could see it)
Vanessa Feltz - Made out to be an eccentric oldie. And if she's middleclass as well then she stands no chance.
There are probably loads of other examples
.
The thing is - the women are put into two categories in RL and on TV - young bimbo/old cow (and no inbetween)
The editing is done to emphasize these two points to the max.

You only have to look at the winners of Celeb BB.
There have been quite a few 'grumpy (ugly) old men' types who have won.

But NO older women!

[ilovesooty]

My personal opinion is that HQ don't care one iota about ageism and aren't interested in making a stand on it.

[cricketpitch]

Agree that there is agism towards older women and teenagers.
As far as older people go it is the treatment rather than the language that distresses me. (I do see that they are connected).

Old people in hospitals who are ignored. Tax policies which favour the young and hit the old. The attitude that older people have no right to live in a house with more than one bedroom or go shopping at lunchtime or sit in a pub with a pint. No real acknowledgement of what they have achieved and contributed and are still contributing - just an assumption that they are fairly useless. Not very nice.

[Mehitabel6]

My personal opinion is that HQ don't care one iota about ageism and aren't interested in making a stand on it.

Otherwise they would have commented by now-any other 'ism' and they would have flagged it up pretty quickly.

[magimedi]

I reported this thread this morning, asking for MNHQ's comments on ageism.

Suppose it is Friday.....................................

[magimedi]

Have just checked my emails & they say they will be popping on this thread to explain their stance.

[DidoTheDodo]

People who moan about teenagers (rightly or not) have at least been a teenager themselves, whereas most of the people being ageist are not yet at that stage of their lives, therefore they are offering an opinion on something they have not experienced. Which makes it doubly annoying.

[Mehitabel6]

Maybe they are thinking of their stance-since they thought it perfectly acceptable to publish a book with a heading containing the words 'the old biddies on the bus'!

[motherinferior]

I agree totally with Devora (I usually do ) et al.

And the assumption that anyone over 55 (at the oldest) is a tottery old crone who grew up in Different Times (so therefore must be expected to hold bizarre and appalling views...)

[Celticlass2]

My friend who is scottish says old wifeys instead of old biddies. I had never heard that before, and I thought it was very funny.
My dad when he was alive used to use the term coffin Dodgers about other elderly people and that was when he was in his 70's.
I used old codger on the thread last night. People say these things all the time without any malice meant.
I think some if you have had a sense of humour bypass. unclench people.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

I didn't realize that MNHQ deleted the thread about older drivers. That's a step in the right direction.

But not too long ago, I reported a comment (I think it was more than one) on a thread for being ageist. MNHQ's response was that they were leaving it because it was answered on the thread. I don't believe that is the approach they use with racist remarks.

[Hakluyt]

"I used old codger on the thread last night. People say these things all the time without any malice meant.
I think some if you have had a sense of humour bypass. unclench people."

Absolutely. Nothing funnier.

Don't tell me. Some of your best friends are over 50, and you regularly share a jolly jape with them about their inability to drive a car, use a mobile phone or a supermarket self checkout.

[DidoTheDodo]

But celticlass if you used a racist term in the same "oh it's just a joke, no malice meant" you would very rightly be taken to task on it. Ageism is no different - it is singling out one group of people because of a single area of commonality.

You wouldn't tell a black person to "unclench" if a white person had called them a racially abusive term?

[Celticlass2]

you wouldn't tell a black person to 'unclench' if a white person had called them a racially Busibe term
You're right I wouldn't. That's because there is absoloutely no comparison.

[Hakluyt]

Some do, actually, Dido. The Prince Harry "calling somebody a Paki is exactly the same as calling someone a Jock" brigade.

[Hakluyt]

"you wouldn't tell a black person to 'unclench' if a white person had called them a racially Busibe term
You're right I wouldn't. That's because there is absoloutely no comparison."

Could you explain why?

[Applefallingfromthetree2]

Would these be the same old duffers,biddies and 'old dears with nothing to do' but collect huge pensions paid for by the young, while living in expensive houses that are too big for their needs and heating them with the winter fuel allowance?

That's not to mention them using bus passes to clog up the buses, taking five holidays a year and expecting to be entertained and fed by their adult children.

Then there are those that expect to be welcome at Christmas and then stay far too long and do the same when visiting adult children overseas. And isn't it annoying how they will feed the DCs chocolate and other unsuitable food when they KNOW we don't want them to. And what a cheek it is that they interfere by looking after the grandchildren, doing the garden and running the vacuum round when only we know how we like these things done. It's also about time they stopped buying for the children without consulting us first.

All these points regularly expressed on Mumsnet. I agree with Devora

[Celticlass2]

Hak I'm 46 and forgot my credit card PIN number in the supermarket today. I'm going through the menopause and have brain fog a lot of the time, so yes me and my friends do joke about such things often

[Yarp]

There are people on here who use insulting terms to refer to older women, who would never use such terms towards other people.

However there are plenty of us who regularly challenge this.

[Mehitabel6]

I used old codger on the thread last night. People say these things all the time without any malice meant

There were lots of terms used for children with special needs, race etc that 'people said all the time without malice' but they have been stopped. It is time to stop it about age. 'Old codger' is dreadful and if I were to be called it I wouldn't see the funny side at all. It is doing them down.