To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

[drudgetrudy]

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.

[ilovesooty]

Ageism on MN seems to be alive and well.

[Moniker1]

Well, the mini buses could def be used by anyone. They do have them where I live, it's a country area so not so easy to get places, and most using the buses are not over 80, maybe some over 70s, some younger. No restrictions.

[Floisme]

Cate sometimes my age is relevant and sometimes it is'nt. When I think it is relevant I'm not shy about saying so. Why should I deny it? It's part of who I am and nothing to be ashamed of.

[GarlicGiftsAndGlitter]

Hmm. There's a woman in my town who gives me cognitive dissonance. I think most people would have seen someone similar - she wears very short, very frilly dresses with either ankle socks & pumps or brightly-decorated high heels. She has very long, blonde hair and uses a lot of makeup. She is well over 70. Whenever I see her, I get hit by conflicting emotions: I think 'Oh dear, she must be vulnerable at this time of night'; 'Is she a prostitute? What kind of men would use such a woman?'; 'It's kind of sweet, if terribly misguided'; 'Her outfit, her choice, I kind of admire that'; 'What on earth is she thinking?'.

Her appearance arouses all my sets of conditioning at once!

[CateBlanket]

That's a shame, Floisme, that you feel the need to put yourself in a category. Can't you just be a woman?

[Floisme]

I've been on that thread and I agree with the sentiments about 'trying too hard'. But I often call myself an 'older' or a 'middle aged' woman and I don't see any problem with it. It's what I am.

[GarlicGiftsAndGlitter]

Over-groomed people of any age can look 'try-hard'! Perhaps I should take it up on S&B ... after removing my face & body hair, painting my nails & doing my make-up, yanking on some control pants, pressing a co-ordinated outfit and selecting the perfect accessories ... I may be some time.

[CateBlanket]

Rather depressing thread over on Style & Beauty about well-groomed 'older' women looking as though they are 'trying too hard'.

[GarlicGiftsAndGlitter]

Yes, Brenda If you position a service as helpful for adults in certain conditions - can't get about much independently, say - then why would you need to specify an age range for your service users?

As things stand at present, you might do that because of the way funding's allocated. Would funding be made available for a minibus service to be used by gay people or black people only? (I don't know the answer to this, btw.)

[BrendaBlackhead]

But isn't that ageist? There are a few people on here suggesting it is patronising to assume just because a person is elderly they may need mini buses and organised days out. Surely it follows that these services should be provided for a lonely 35-year-old as well?

[Moniker1]

When you treat any sector of people as a homogeneous mass, assuming characteristics based on some arbitrary factor, you have begun de-humanising and 'othering' them

I think this is the crux of the matter. My DM was fit and able to live a full life until roughly the last 3 of years of her life when arthritis meant she was unable to walk any distance . So for only a tiny part of her 'old age' was she needing full time support.

Many corner shops and community post offices have gone, where people once had contact with neighbours. Community mini buses with organized days out, trips to shopping centres might be a way to go for those who see no one.

[GarlicGiftsAndGlitter]

She may have impaired abilities. She's statistically more likely than a younger person to have some. But, if you separate your mental linkage of age with disability, you'll be seeing her more as a person and taking her on her own merits. Otherwise, you're starting from a point of 'all old people have impairments; they all need XYZ segregated treatment and/or controls'.

When you treat any sector of people as a homogeneous mass, assuming characteristics based on some arbitrary factor, you have begun de-humanising and 'othering' them.

As I mentioned above, it used to be commonly accepted that all women were mentally & physically impaired. This simply isn't true, is it? Yet it was enshrined in law until ~50 years ago. Making assumptions based on age is just as irrational as basing such assumptions on sex.

We can make assumptions about children based on their age - human development passes through some known stages - but old people aren't children; they're individual adults, to state the obvious.

[BrendaBlackhead]

Quite, Floisme. An 89-year-old woman should not be insulted nor belitted because of her age . But I can't get my head around those on here who are saying that that same woman has no age-related limitations. That is absolutely ridiculous.

It's no good coming up with, "Well, my Aunt Mary...." - One swallow does not make a summer.

[Floisme]

I'm sure there's still plenty to go at, Garlic

[GarlicGiftsAndGlitter]

:) Thanks, Flo! Just off to think up a few insults ...

[Floisme]

Before someone comes along complaining that they're 'not allowed to say anything anymore', I would like to clarify my earlier post:

' ... no-one should have the right to insult or belittle me....'
I should have added because of my age. You're still at liberty to insult me - just leave my age out of it, as I'm sure you would my race or sexual preferences.

[ArsenicSoup]

Putting my social science hat on, Dido, I suspect what happens is that someone high up in Public Health looks at the figures that show a male ex-manual worker of 65 in Glasgow is likely to be 'enjoying' similar health to a wealthy 95 year old woman in Kensington and decides to deliver one 'egalitarian' public health message/programme to all over 60s and that this approach now has a stranglehold on the influential public sector.

So an attempt not to discriminate/patronise has led to an endemic culture of just that.

[DidoTheDodo]

But Brenda, the point is that not everybody needs care when they get older, that some people are indeed pretty fit and zooming about confidently in their cars and have all their mental faculties, but society still insists on lumping them all together under an "incapable, need patronising and are not contributing to society" umbrella.

[ArsenicSoup]

Can I recommend "Somewhere towards the end" by Diana Athill to anyone who hasn't read it?

It is memoir/autobiography and she was almost 90 when it was published. It is the kind of clear-eyed, unsentimental writing on her own experience of being older that many of you would appreciate.

Of course, it probably wouldn't have been published had it not been her fifth or sixth volume of memoir and has she not had a long career in publishing herself, but we need more of it.

[BrendaBlackhead]

What I'm saying is that age doesn't equal disability

Piffle! We're not immortal!

Agree that older people are entitled to respect at whatever age but no, no one is as fit at 95 as they were at 20. Why on earth do you think there's a care crisis if all these old people are zooming about in their cars quite competently, fit as fiddles and with the brain cells of an 18-year-old?

[DidoTheDodo]

Celticlass, yes she can actually! (I don't think she has ever had an accident in all they years she has been driving)

[magimedi]

No - just commented.

Maybe I'll go back & report!

[BIWI]

Did you report it?!

[magimedi]

It's taken about 8 posts on a Christmas shoppers thread (in AIBU) for someone to moan about 'pensioners' getting in their way.

[Floisme]

I would not last five minutes up the Amazon and wouldn't have done at any age Respect to anyone who does it!