To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

[drudgetrudy]

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.

[Latara]

I find it hard to be ageist because I nurse mainly older people. So I see people as individuals because of course they are once you get to know them!

Also; My mum is 65 & so is her boss; her friends are bookkeepers and everyone at that business is aged 60-75.
My dad is 67 & is returning to full time work soon following an op for cancer.
I suppose my parents are quite unusual in that they both look very young & both still work - but my dad gets bored at home, & my mum can't afford not to work.

Lots of my colleagues are older than me - up to 60s agegroup.
The only problem I have with some of them is that at 38 I look very young for my age and some of them can be quite patronising to me or talk to me like I'm very young which is irritating.

By the way I read about PD James today & was surprised to learn that she wrote her first book at 42, & was still writing when she died at 94.
I've also read about a lady who is 101 (a retired teacher) & still gives speeches to schoolchildren.

I try not to make assumptions based on age if possible.

[Mehitabel6]

Every few months someone comes on and ask why people post on MN if they have no children, are older or men-as if mothers between certain ages are the only ones who can have opinions worth listening to!

[DidoTheDodo]

Excellent thread. I often fins myself challenging ageist statements on MN - and other ism in the same vein would not be tolerated at all.

"as you are now, so once I was....as I am now, so you will be"

[thegreylady]

I think many posters on here assume that older women are not reading on here so there is free rein for the condescension which would be suppressed if another group was involved.
I am 70 and am still very much who I have always been.

[MaudantWit]

Excellent thread. It irks me too that on MN older women are often caricatured as nasty and embittered.

[bodhranbae]

It makes me livid that ageism is so glibly tolerated.

I would like to see Mumsnet be MUCH more proactive about highlighting ageism and recognise the casual abuse thrown at older people as prejudicial and offensive.

Always thought ageism was idiotic - as if ageing was somehow optional.
It comes to us all.
I spent a long time living in Asia and miss the respect afforded to older people there.

We treated our elderly citizens like shit in the country and it is a fucking disgrace.

[skolastica]

I think that if I ever use any derogatory ageist terms towards either those older than me or those younger than me, it's not an age thing, but related to what has come over in their demeanour or out of their mouth. Some people just fit the stereotype.

[Mehitabel6]

It is only when I look in the mirror that I see how old I am. I always thought as a child that one day I would be 'grown up'-I am over 60 and a bit disappointed that it never happened-I still feel the same-just more confidence and more experience. I will only be 'elderly' when I can't do the things that I have always done-ski-run-roll on the floor with a toddler etc.

[Mehitabel6]

It makes me livid that ageism is so glibly tolerated.

I would like to see Mumsnet be MUCH more proactive about highlighting ageism and recognise the casual abuse thrown at older people as prejudicial and offensive.

Well said! Are MNHQ listening?

[drudgetrudy]

Yes Mehitabel I have seen the threads suggesting older people shouldn't be in the shops at lunch time

If I reveal that I'm over 60 I risk loosing credibility on here-although in real life the people I count as close friends range from 35-70+ (-some former work colleagues). Shocked that they just treat me as a normal person but I would be dismissed on here and assumptions would be made as to what my opinion would be.

Unfortunately I am not an old biddy with nothing to do-so sometimes I am forced to drive on the roads and go into the supermarket at lunch time.
Apologies if I get in the way-I do get my debit card out and pack as quickly as possible-wouldn't wish to hold up more important people.

[solidussnake]

it seems on here, if you're young, no one will listen to you.
If you're elderly, no one will listen to you either.
You have to be married, between the ages of 25-44 with 3 DC to be able to speak on this forum.

We treated our elderly citizens like shit in the country and it is a fucking disgrace.
completely agree. It pains me to see elderly people being beaten in homes and they can't do anything about it. it's disgusting. how can people get away with taking an elderly person's voice away from them? It seems it not only happens IRL but on the internet too. A lot of people use this site as an escape, but are still getting the shit here too.

[Hakluyt]

"But I have also met some really grumpy sows that DO fit the stereotype. You also have only got to read a MiL thread to see the stereotype being reinforced in spades."

Er-I wonder who's doing the stereotyping here? I think generally MIL threads are a case in point. All you have to do is say that a woman is a MIL and everyone agrees that she is wrong and you are right. Regardless.

Have you never met a "grumpy sow" who was under 55 then?

[drudgetrudy]

solid-I agree with you-women aged 25-50 are assumed to be in the right unless they are in conflict with someone in the same age and gender bracket.

Of course there are grumpy cows that are old-there are also grumpy cows that are young-it doesn't mean we should generalise from this and make assumptions that older women in general are grumpy cows.

[ArcheryAnnie]

It's true that generalisations and stereotypes are used about every age group, but that's different from ageism - and it's older women who get it in the neck, every time, in almost every sphere online.

I don't just mean the general "old trout", "old biddy" stuff in mainstream media.

In feminism, the second-wave feminists whose won many of the legal rights women enjoy today, and who put in the hard graft to get refuges, rape crisis centres, etc set up, are derided as prudes, dried-up sex-negatives, "whorephobes", irrelevant, and so on. I have seen younger women online (especially the ones who try really hard to be More Edgy Than Thou) say with an utterly straight face that, never mind, these old women will die soon so we won't have to worry about their outdated politics that much longer.

And in advertising - if I ever hear "not your grandmother's sewing circle" used as a strapline for some event just once more, it will be one time too many. I see it all the time as a shorthand for "this is so edgy it will blow your mind", and my inward response is that the people writing it would have conniptions if they knew what their own grandmothers and great-grandmothers had got up to - and the risks they took, and the scandals they braved, and the amazing changes they brought about - decades before these twenty-somethings were born.

[Mehitabel6]

Have you never met a "grumpy sow" hmm who was under 55 then?

In spades on MN -fairly young and can't just reply to the person on the supermarket checkout without moaning!

[Innocuoususername]

I don't think that's always true of MIL threads, there was one yesterday where the OP was told by the majority of posters that she was BU (to which she had a bit of a strop ). But in general, I was thinking similar, you often see "she's had her time with her babies": subtext, what does the stupid old woman know?

[Mehitabel6]

Very, very true ArcheryAnnie

[drudgetrudy]

Yes VertedeTerre
I have seen a shift in the MIL threads over the last few days too.

Sadly as I don't have "nothing better to do" I will have to leave this thread now but will be back to have a look this evening. I'll be interested to see if MNHQ have expressed an opinion.
I promise to put my foot down when joining the dual carriageway and will try to keep my speed up in the shops

[JazzAnnNonMouse]

For those that say they don't see ageism against the young - 'young mum' is often a substitute for incompetent, unreliable, uneducated etc.
Of course there are young mothers like that but there are also average aged mothers like that and older aged mothers like that which makes me question why the age label?
If someone knew a average aged or older mother who was struggling they're age wouldn't be mentioned.

[JazzAnnNonMouse]

Their

[ArcheryAnnie]

If someone knew a average aged or older mother who was struggling they're age wouldn't be mentioned.

Yes it would (and is). Older mothers are "selfish" when their age is mentioned, as well as all the other stuff, for lumbering their growing children with an old trout, and being so inconsiderate as to risk being infirm or dying before the grandchildren have been delivered to them for free babysitting properly dandled on their knees.

[Fallingovercliffs]

I saw the post about 'old dears with nothing to do'. I thought it said more about the poster than anyone else.
But yes, some people are very derogatory about older people on here. I wonder if they will look back in 20 or 30 years time, when they might have a bit more understanding of what it's like to not be as nimble or quick or confident a driver as you used to be and feel ashamed.
Because that's the thing. We're all just a generation away from being that old lady fumbling with her purse at the checkout while younger people sigh and roll their eyes up to Heaven.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Some people are spectacularly missing the point here.

Citing examples of older women being "hot" or having exciting jobs.

Frumpy older women with "nothing better to do" are equally worthy of respect; you shouldn't have to emualate a younger person to be worthy of respect, anymore than a woman should have to emulate a man to be worthy of respect.

[Hakluyt]

"I wonder if they will look back in 20 or 30 years time,"

What, when they are 50 or 60?

It's not about whether or not people should be kind and sympathetic to "the old lady fumbling with her purse" - it's about characterising old people as that old lady. Not as, for example, the 94 year old who got to the Head to Head in Pointless recently..............

[gnushoes]

Actually I don't think young women on the site are patronised.
But anyone over about 45 is. It stands out like a sore thumb as the slightest hint of any other "ism" in a posting usually attracts a huge flaming. Say disabled not wheelchair user? Say something which is perceived as racist? Don your tin hat. Say something really prejudiced about older women, making huge assumptions, and half the thread will pile in to agree with you. It's really unpleasant and frankly unimaginative. Won't happen to you, eh? Think again.