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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

608 replies

drudgetrudy · 27/11/2014 23:08

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.Angry

OP posts:
BrendaBlackhead · 02/12/2014 09:36

I think we have to remember that most probably many of us were ageist when we were "young". I used to think 50 was ancient and now, of course it's not and how could anyone be outrageous enough to think so?

I watch the reruns of TOTP - at the moment it's 1979. Pop stars that I thought were truly pensioners back then now look quite acceptable! Lead singer of Dr Hook... Blush

I'm sorry, DameDiazepam, but I agree that some people - and they are mostly elderly - should leave the early morning doctors' appointments clear. I am not working. It would be selfish of me to book an 8am appointment. If it's an emergency, then that is different, but just booking ahead, then, yes, it is unfair on those who have to get to work/school etc.

Hakluyt · 02/12/2014 09:39

"I think we have to remember that most probably many of us were ageist when we were "young". I used to think 50 was ancient and now, of course it's not and how could anyone be outrageous enough to think so?"

Possibly. But I like to think I wouldn't have refused to acknowledge the issue if it had been pointed out to me!

Hakluyt · 02/12/2014 09:44

"I'm sorry, DameDiazepam, but I agree that some people - and they are mostly elderly - should leave the early morning doctors' appointments clear. I am not working. It would be selfish of me to book an 8am appointment."

This is an excellent illustration of the point.

There is a big difference between saying that people who don't need an early appointment should leave them for those that do, and saying old people should not ask for early appointments. The first is perfectly reasonable. The second assumes that old people have no commitments or time constraints and nothing to do all day.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 02/12/2014 09:49

Brenda- I don't know the last time you tried to book an appt but ime you don't get a lot of choice and take what you are given.

Lots of over 60's still work or help out with grandchildren or have other commitments, it's completely up to them what time they chose to see a doctor. I can't imagine someone ever thinking ' oh I know I'll turn down that an appt in case someone else needs it.'

ilovesooty · 02/12/2014 10:01

At the moment I'm getting very annoyed with the NHS advert that encourages people with elderly relatives to look out for them. Elderly is defined as over 60!
Judging from the comments I've seen I'm not alone in being infuriated.

Hakluyt · 02/12/2014 10:05

Actually, I did turn down an early appointment for ds that very reason last week, because I knew he wasn't going to school anyway, so we could go any time. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. But nothing to do with age!!!!!!!

Lilymaid · 02/12/2014 10:10

ilovesooty
Yes, I'm one of those elderly (vulnerable) adults that my children need to look after. I'm in full time work despite having serious health problem and I think I've still got my marbles (somewhere ... where are my specs?)
They will be "looking" after me when they come at Christmas ... probably by making sure I stay in one room (the kitchen) and produce all the home cooked meals they like!

GarlicGiftsAndGlitter · 02/12/2014 10:35

I think there is conflation of disability and age. It's convenient for a society that currently devalues both disability and age. I can see a sort of rough logic to it, in that elderly, non-disabled people are somewhat vulnerable due to declining strength. But plenty of healthy, young people are weaker than average too. Meanwhile we have failures to respect the needs of younger disabled people, along with assumptions of disability in healthy older people.
Sorry I haven't put this very clearly - I'm late!

Moniker1 · 02/12/2014 11:30

We value wealth, status and power in our society - or I presume we do as you only need to read threads about DCs aiming for A* results and the angst surrounding that, and private schooling, to see that getting our DCs into a wealth, status, power job is seen as v important. (OK they might also go into a caring role but many parents are aiming for the above for their DCs - I am making a point, I don't want to hear about your superbrainy DCs who are careworkers in Africa for a pittance ).

Therefore 'the old' or 'the elderly' (not old as an adjective) are the opposite of this, taking from society in their pensions and health needs and not contributing, though many will pay tax, hence low status and lack of respect from society. Maybe we need to flag up what old people do do, many work on beyond retirement, and many in caring roles, GCs and their parents, their partners, many doing unpaid voluntary work. Perhaps publicising more widely the financial savings they are making to society/ the NHS would improve the image.

But on the other hand, I listened to Esther Rantzen talking about Silverline, many thousands of old people are lonely. There we are again, huge headlines about these needy elderly/ old (though a few were young)

If you are alone and house bound all family at a distance you will be lonely. But if your DCs have grown up and moved away, you no longer work, but you are fit, is it really someone else's responsibility to sort your loneliness? I am not meaning to criticize people who are lonely, rather to point out the negative media coverage of the elderly/ old people/ old and raise a point for discussion.

UptheChimney · 02/12/2014 13:12

Loving some of the posts here, so thank you all, and especially Devora 's latest

Mehitabel6 · 02/12/2014 13:45

This was the link that I couldn't manage to post earlier
It cheered me up!

ginslinger · 03/12/2014 07:58

I agree whole heartedly with Devora.

GreenShadow · 03/12/2014 20:32

Slightly off topic, but for those of you who either liked or didn't like Jenny Joseph's 'Purple' poem I can report that now the poet really is 'old' she is one of the most incredible older people that I have met.
She lives locally and comes in our library sometimes. Her memory is amazing and she is still one of the most intelligent and interesting person I have come across. (And no, I have never seen her wear purple).

Floisme · 04/12/2014 07:17

I don't mind the poem itself. I do however find it slightly depressing that the best known poem about old age was written by a woman in her twenties. Has Jenny Joseph ever 'updated' it?

EmilyAlice · 04/12/2014 07:47

Excellent post Devora. I also get driven mad by the ageism on here and the complete lack of understanding (by some) of the achievements of previous generations in the struggle for equality. It isn't just my generation of feminists whose contribution is blithely ignored.

BrendaBlackhead · 04/12/2014 07:47

I think there is conflation of disability and age

But it is undeniable that there is a link. Not at 50, with luck, but who hasn't got creaking knees, feels a bit stiff at 60? At 80 most people are certainly quite a bit slower, and as for 100...

There are two points, at least, the first of which is that 50 nowadays is not old and to be targeted by Saga etc is inappropriate. For a start people that age will be working till at least 67 and won't have a chance to go on ten coach tours of New England a year! And secondly that "old" age lasts a long time so it is ridiculous to bracket a 90 year old with someone of 55 - both of whom occupy the same box in surveys. Someone of 90 is old - they just are . If their mental faculties are top notch then great - but in my experience most people of that age are quite infirm.

Moniker1 · 04/12/2014 07:48

I was looking at information about the Silver Line - just wondering how high the numbers are. They are depressingly high, and the befrienders phone people once or twice a week.

This will partly be due to it being anonymous but it does suggest that if the one or two weekly phone calls befrienders make to a silverliner are making such a difference to their lives they must be very lonely.

Part of the answer could be to get lonely old people to phone another lonely old person. Befrienders are vetted I presume but surely they don't have to be younger people. Or the lonely people could be given the numbers of one or two others (pre vetted) in their area, then see where it goes from there.

BrendaBlackhead · 04/12/2014 07:58

I was reading Nora Ephron's autobiographical pieces, and she said that the biggest contributor to 40/50+ women's "lib" is actually hair dye! She remarks that she is looking round at a conference and that not one woman has grey hair, which 20 years ago they would have done, and which of course they all would do if nature were taking its course.

Of course it should be explored why we can have "silver foxes" like George Clooney and they are not just acceptable but sexy, but women are all madly slathering on the Clairol.

Floisme · 04/12/2014 08:40

I love Nora Ephron and I haven't read that piece but I hope she had her tongue firmly in her cheek. Why should I have to deny my age if I want to be taken seriously?

GarlicGiftsAndGlitter · 04/12/2014 15:39

Brenda, my point is that people with disabilities = people with disabilities. It is not a given that old people = people with disabilities.

While we're doing personal experiences, my stepfather can climb trees, lift a washing machine, throw sacks of earth, is more up-to-date in his thinking than many men my age and younger, and is 89. My mother, at 85, is a little bit bent by osteoarthritis, a little bit deaf and a little bit doddery due to leg ulcers, but by no means "old" mentally, socially or in her personal style. The pair of them lead busy lives that would flatten me.

I, however, am a person with disabilities and have been since the age of 45. Others, of course, have disabilities much earlier in life. It's incredibly stupid that the popular understanding of "old" makes me older than my parents!

drudgetrudy · 04/12/2014 16:07

I don't think it really matters at what age people are perceived as old. What does matter is when people are casually insulted because of their age and lumped together in a dismissive way.
This would also apply to people with disabilities.
There have been a few threads where age has been mentioned over the last few days-but not in a nasty discriminatory way-which is fine eg "Some old people drive more slowly"-true. "Inept old duffers shouldn't be on the road"-quite different.

Examples that I would object to "Your MIL is an interfering old bat-people of her generation generally are"
"The disabled tend to have a chip on their shoulder"can you see how horrible it is-BUT happily not seen much this week.SmileI have in the past though.

OP posts:
BrendaBlackhead · 04/12/2014 16:59

Well, Garlic, your stepfather may be able to climb trees at 89, but that is not usual. It's like those women who breezily say that declining fertility is rubbish just because they managed to conceive at 45.

Old age is a fact and I don't think it's helpful to hold up examples of people running marathons at 100 etc - as if anyone who succumbs to infirmity at a younger age has somehow failed .

In the paper today was the case of a man of 84 who killed a woman and left another brain damaged and also clipped a pushchair because he pressed the accelerator instead of the brake and mounted the pavement. He had apparently had a stroke and had eye problems. Why is it ageist to say that people of this age should be regularly monitored to stop this sort of tragedy happening? It's just a fact that people deteriorate - we are but a collection of cells with a finite span after all.

DidoTheDodo · 04/12/2014 17:16

My mum, at 91, is totally independent, volunteers for oxfam, spends hours in the garden, doing very physical digging etc and can touch her toes. She's rather deaf but so what?
Maybe not so unusual?

Celticlass2 · 04/12/2014 17:24

But can she drive a car safely Dido

Celticlass2 · 04/12/2014 17:29

I completely agree with you Brenda

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