To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

[drudgetrudy]

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.

We were more than happy to delete the "old people driving thread the other day", as it was clearly unpleasant but I'd be wary of censoring every reference to an old biddy because I do think the usage/intention is important and sometimes it's better to have a discussion, as here, which has and will certainly made us think carefully about this issue and have a bit of an audit of ourselves and how we are moderating

Coming back to this ...

I'm really really surprised that Mumsnet HQ is defending its own use of "old biddy" as derogatory. Imagine if there were a book chapter in a book written by women, for women which used racist terms about

'interfering black man on the bus'

or 'interfering chav on the bus'

I think it demonstrates just how internalised misogyny can be. Sadly.

Old is fine. Elderly is fine. The old or the elderly less fine. Elder is fine, if a bit cringe making.

The point is why classify people by age at all, unless in very specific circumstances- maybe when discussing healthcare perhaps?

Oh, and trout and sow are useful words too. It's just when you put old in front of them that problems arise......

OK I've just had a quick read through some current threads and I think I'm going to climb down. I've not seen any actual insults but the general idea that the word 'old'=set in your ways and past it....jeez once you start noticing it, you realise it's everywhere.

I'm a bit depressed now.

I agree that in general conversation, especially much of the discussion that we have been talking about on MN ("old biddies on buses") age is irrelevant. But in much of my work it is relevant and we have to find the right terms to refer to aging and the people it affects. There are many legal protections and services that older people have in the US (as I assume also in the UK) so we have to talk about the jurisdictional aspects of those laws and services. Some examples of the terms used are the Older Americans Act and Abuse in Later Life (for programs about domestic and sexual violence).

Erm, that went well. Advice on what I could have done better?

Nothing. You were perfectly polite and clear. Well done!

The Professionally Unoffended are a hard to reach constituency.

I've just followed you in there, Garlic

Flo! YY, Hak. 'Professionally Unoffended'

Well done garlic.

As I said on the thread, Well done & thank you.

If we all keep at it (am quite exhausted thinking about it1) it will make a change, slowly but surely.

It will be a full time job. Or we could just play a form of ageism bingo. Look at a thread title regarding some unenlightened view or objectionable practice and bet yourself how many posts in before someone says, "it's a generational thing."

Actually since this discussion started the worst excesses of ageist insults have been less in evidence.

I think trying to replace the word ""old" is a bit silly-its when an insult like duffer or biddy is added that the problem starts.

Old is also a relative term. When I started a job aged 24 my 58 year old manager appeared old to me. I accept quite happily that young people will perceive me as old. I don't expect them to dismiss my opinion because I'm just a silly old dear with nothing to do.

Well done for getting on to it where you see it.
BTW I looked for the campaign against everyday ageism on gransnet and could find very little. In fact there was a general feeling that this isn't worth getting worked up about when i last looked.

The Professionally Unoffended are a hard to reach constituency.

Ha

Well done Garlic - thought you were very diplomatic. There's a bit of a mountain to climb on here and no doubt a good bit of offence will be taken when people are challenged. Twas ever thus. KOKO.

In fact there was a general feeling that this isin't worth getting worked up about when I last looked

Does this not tell you something?

I'm not sure what it tells me!

It would suggest to me, that this is a bit of a non issue ( remember mumsnet said they had very few complaints about age related posts)

Despite this, and despite the fact that Gransnet, which I've never been on, by the way,- does not see this as an issue( as has just been posted) makes me think that there are certain posters who are trying to make is one almost trying to turn in to their 'campaign'.

Not many people thought sexism was an issue at one time. Or racism, Or homophobia.

The fact that Gransnet started Everday Ageism suggests that it is an issue!

Why on earth would you think it isn't, Celticlass?

Celtic ... Typing off the top of my head, and I'm sure the reasons are as many & various as there are Gransnetters. But think about a woman who fought intense, institutionalised sexism throughout her twenties & thirties. Who is both proud of her generation's achievements and disillusioned by the amount of real progress evident after 70 whole years of feminist battles. Who's raised her family, dealt with financial and social blows most younger women haven't even bothered imagining. And who finds herself facing yet another uncomprehending wall of thoughtless belittlement, removal of privilege, and marginalisation. If she has maybe 20 years' life ahead of her - quite possibly much less - who can blame her for deciding not to try changing the world this time? Perhaps she feels she's done enough; can't be bloody bothered to make life better for those who come after, yet again.

1979-I am sitting in my living room breastfeeding my 2 week-old baby.
The phone goes (maternity leave has just been introduced). It is my manager (local authority).
"What are you playing at young lady-I'm holding a job open for you"

Because this was challenged it is not as likely to happen now.
I hope challenging ageism coupled with sexism now benefits women in the future too.

You are a vocal minority. I'll give you that.
I think you are trying to make this in to something it clearly is not. Poster up thread has said that she looked on Gransnet and felt it wasn't much of an issue. Musnet HQ said the same, but was bullied in to responding and agreeing to make 'concessions'

I also think trawling threads looking for offence when none is meant is rather stakerish and disturbing.

I,ve no intention of "stalking" but if I see offensive comments I will report-as I would with a racist or homophobic comment-I don't think anyone is going to get obsessed and go looking for it.

Bullied?! Don't be daft.

I was already on that thread, you ... silly little girl.