To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

I BF for 5 months, but by the time he hit 3 months I'd had enough of the cluster feeding (5pm until 2am sometimes) it was a nightmare. So during the day I BF and then when it got to 5pm it was FF all the way. The cluster feeding stopped and he slept for anywhere between 8 and 10 hours at night. It was heaven! I did feel some guilt but honestly, my own sanity outweighed the guilt and I was much less tired and a much happier mum as a result.

having seen several friends struggle to Breast feed and seen the awful treatment they received from the so called support service here I decided that I would not put myself through that. I have severe issues with depression and anxiety and it was more important to me that I was happy and well and that meant ff. there was no choice in it for me bf was never an option.

I thought maybe i should introduce a bottle after a few weeks. Could not be more glad i didn't.

10 months on and DD is still bf. She latches herself on now, lifts my top for milk and can feed sat up or in any position she likes.

I think it's far too easy for people to say 'well you gave it a good go' and then you stop.

I know I would have regretted my baby having even a few bottles of formula and I am so glad a never caved in when things got tough.

Your hormones are all over the place, and your brain is drunk on "new baby". It's a powerful combination.

Also, it's probably evolutionarily wired into women to need to feed their new baby to ensure the survival of their species. No one in their right mind would want sore bleeding nipples. But you see your baby and you persevere.

Personally, I chose formula because I just hated breastfeeding. It hurt, it was restrictive, I was happier snuggling up to DD with a bottle and holding eye contact.

I don't understand why it's acceptable to say you're proud of breastfeeding, but not for me to say, for example, I'm proud of having a vaginal birth, without epidural?

I don't think BF is anything to be proud of neither is a natural birth whatever the fuck that is.

Why proud? It's not a race or a competition to win it's just personal choice. I can never understand the interest in this tiny part of a babies life and being interested in how anyone else feeds their babies is truly baffling to me. Who cares?

I think it may be a first baby issue really and the pressure to do it right

By baby 4 I knew I would never get it right but generally good enough and that's fine.

That's what I'm saying though Thebody is that I'd be laughed at if I said oh I'm so proud of myself for not having an epidural, I did it through sheer determination, anyone who has pain relief clearly isn't trying enough... Why isn't there the same derision of those who are proud of breastfeeding?

Its a hormonal response that kicks in the "guilt" which is then exacerbated by societal pressures. As new mums, our brains are hardwired to respond hormonally to our infants demands to be fed. A long conceived idea about how we "should" be doing it leads to horrendous guilt when we're unable to or find it ridiculously hard. Add to this our expectations of ourselves as a new mum and it's a recipe for guilt and negative emotion.

I think its only by having faith in your decisions and choices that softens a blow to our ideals. My mantra when I had DS1 was "as long as he's alive at the end of the day we are fine" and I lived by that. I decided to have absolutely zero expectations of myself from the way I gave birth, to the way I fed my baby because I didn't want to fail myself.

I wanted to breastfeed because I didn't want to additional expense of formula (extortionate over here) - but with breastfeeding came the hassle of expressing when I went back to work at 17 weeks, and the sterilising.

I exclusively breastfed until 6 months then mixed fed until 9 months, then stopped nursing altogether after that. I was fortunate that DS didn't have latching issues and learnt quickly how to nurse.

DS2 is now 8 months and have followed the same pattern but what I read about repeatedly on here is how different a prospective mother's idea about nursing is, to the reality. How many times I read "I didn't know it would be so painful", to "I didn't know he would feed so often" and "I didn't know it would be such a learning curve for us both". Whilst the NHS (from what I understand as I don't live in the UK) continues to pedal the "Breast is Best" party line, they don't seem to be following it up with the management of expectations. So there is shock when it doesn't pan out according to the vision of a new mum in a rocking chair nursing her sleeping infant with a smile on her face.

Forgive me if this is totally obvious, but from an outsider looking in, the "Breast is Best" party line would be far easier to swallow, would get peoples' backs up less and assuage far more new mum guilt if it was prefaced with "its pretty fucking uncomfortable to start with; your baby will feed at least every few hours if not more; your milk won't come in for 4-5 days at which point your boobs are going to ache like a bastard and until that point baby probably won't leave your breast as the more they nurse the quicker your milk comes; your baby is also learning how to nurse so it's a massive curve for you both; and there may be a number of hurdles like tongue tie or jaundice in your way but if you have the right support and knowledge in your hands, it may hopefully be a better experience."

There's no point in saying "Breast is Best" without explaining the typical journey a new mum might have before getting to the "best" part.

I have no guilt about formula, nor would I have if I'd have ff from the start, just as I have no guilt about not preparing homecooked food and solely using pots and ella's kitchen when I weaned DS1 (and now with DS2)

Most of the time it's not acceptable to say you are proud of breast feeding though, because someone takes offence.

But I'm proud of the fact that I breastfed because for a while, it was difficult and I chose to stick with the difficult but better option than go with the easy and not better option. It makes no difference to anyone else how a person feels about the way they fed their child, or the way they gave birth. If people proud of doing something that wasn't easy, then good for them.

Well said Stroke.

I BF my first until he started refusing at about 10months. Great stuff. His sister came along shortly after and sounds a lot like your baby. Poor latch. Failing to thrive. The Drs and HV suggested (when she was 2months) such a ridiculous feeding regime, BF then top up with expressed then top up with FF. I thought chuff that. I'm so glad I had the confidence to not get involved with such a daft regime.
Well done if you can BF. Being a new mother is utterly exhausting. I just think as long as you do feed them and they put on weight then you're doing a fab job.
Congratulations.

Pomme - the vast majority of women stop breastfeeding long long before they return to work.

And ironically, in the UK the women who breastfeed longest are also those who are most likely to return to work after having a baby , and those who are least likely to breastfeed are also those who are least likely to return to work (or indeed to have ever worked).

Go figure. Work generally plays very small part in women's feeding decisions in the UK.

Stroke - would it also be appropriate for there to be more acknowledgement of the problems associated with bottle feeding (problems mainly experienced by babies rather than women) as there is almost no proper discussion of this antenatally as far as I can see. As you say - in the interest of 'informed choice'?

But... I AM proud of myself for breastfeeding. Just like I am proud of myself for being able to speak French. Neither of which interest anyone else I should imagine, but I'll be buggered if I am not allowed to be proud!

Oh I knew all about the problems associated with bottle feeding - that was the main reason that I (along with the other 80 odd per cent of new mums in this country) started by breastfeeding.

What I didn't know (despite going to an NCT breastfeeding 'workshop') are all the things that stroke said above. And that breastfeeding is not just a case of pop them on and away we go. And that big gashes in your nipples won't just go away with a bit of lansinoh.

The utter shock of this realisation was the main factor in me giving up so quickly. By the time I had recovered from the shock that was breastfeeding, and tried to find some support it was too late, I was too miserable and upset to carry on with it so I stopped.

And bloody glad I am too that I did!

I tried SO hard to BF first two DC. I was desperate for it to work and when it didn't I guilt tripped myself so badly. I felt really guilty and ashamed every time I had to feed them in public especially, I was paranoid everyone would be judging me. Bfing was just awful with DC1&2... Cracked, bleeding nipples to a point where I was crying at every feed and I have a high pain threshold, this was making me sob! They wouldn't latch and would fight me every time I tried to get them to- especially DC2, she just went apeshit whenever I tried to get her to latch. I tried expressing but it took me an hour to get a measly 2oz out, they were huge babies and that was guzzled in seconds! As soon as I gave in, admitted 'defeat' and started FFing I did have all of the feelings of guilt that riddled me for months BUT THE RELIEF! It felt like the weight of the world had been lifted from my shoulders, seriously.

Determined to BF dc3 in the same way I was with the first two and IT WORKED! I don't know why she was different but she was, she just latched from the start and carried on latching. The only problem was the cluster feeding, oh my... I felt like she was attached to my breasts 24 hours a day and tbh she practically was, I couldn't even bath in peace or brush my teeth! Brushing my teeth became the biggest task in the world at that point. So it wasn't without its downers but by and large it went well with her, she weaned herself off at 14 months.

Now I have to say one thing that's obviously just my experience! DC3 who was BF for 14 months, never had formula is always the first to get sick. The first two very very rarely caught colds before she was born, DC3 seems to get a cold six times a year (and usually passes them onto the rest of us .) may just be a coincidence but it's a bit odd that breastfeeding apparently provides amazing immunity and she's the one that's constantly attracting illness, the other two FF children never did. Just saying.

That's the only thing that's 'different' about DC3 to the other two. They've developed at the same rates, none of them have any sort of illness etc. Theyre all healthy, happy kids despite what I fed them with in the first six months! Also I was FF as were my parents and DH and we're all fine too. I really dispute studies in general tbh, I think formula is as good as BM nowadays.

I know why it's such an emotive subject and why women are made to feel guilty for FFing though. Because it's drummed into you from the start of your pregnancy that you MUST BF, it's the absolute best for your baby and for you too, it's great for this reason and that, provides immunity from this and that, prevents them from getting such and such, it's the 'natural' thing to do etc etc. There's a huge pressure on expectant mums to breastfeed, huge. If you really struggle with it and do give in and end up FFing it's obviously going to make some women feel like they're a failure and like they're doing a bad thing to their DC. Poppycock! Feed your baby, don't let them starve and you're doing the right thing.

Well, I didn't have so much as a paracetamol while giving birth to DD, but I'm not particularly proud of myself, because it wasn't by choice, and was all over within about a (very painful!) hour.

I EBF'd both DC for 6 months, and then continued to BF them until past one year old, and yes, I am quietly, privately proud of myself.

For persevering in spite of pain and upset in the early days with DC1, for being their sole means of nutrition for their first 6 months of life, and for surviving being the only one getting up in the night to feed and respond to them - that nearly killed me. Yes, I am proud of that, though I'd never say it to a soul in real life.

On the other hand, I actively pushed my best friend to switch to formula when she was in the throes of mastitis and PND, and when continuing BFing in her circs would've been insanity. The fact that it was such a hard decision for her just goes to show how much pressure we put on our own selves at this vulnerable time, let alone what comes from others.

You pressured your friend to stop breastfeeding because you thought it was best for her?

What happened to being kind and supportive and allowing people to make important decisions for themselves?

Nancy you should not only be proud of your Linguistic skills etc but also your MN name I luv it when one makes me chuckle

minifingers I would have though that there's more than enough education on the "pitfalls" of formula feeding hence the reason why so many mothers feel guilty about using it! (Disclaimer: I love formula, think it's fantastic stuff, have used it and will continue to use it, no guilt attached!)

The last thing new mothers need is more guilt about what could potentially happen to their baby if they use the evil that is formula (which according to some, is nothing short of criminal). New mothers know about different brands of formula, what is best for gassy babies, for those with milk intolerances, which has been rated best by Which! magazine (if such a survey was done, I'm just pulling that out of my ass for demonstration purposes)

What new mothers for the most part don't have, are realistic expectations combined with sympathetic and understanding ears from the support network pedalling the "breast is best" campaign because of the lack of information. It's all very well to push the agenda, but to not back it up with what women can expect from day 1 along with understanding from the professionals is what is proving so detrimental to its cause as well as to all the new mothers.

If you know what to expect, try it and it doesn't work out, then chances are you will feel less guilt than if you'd gone in blind, imagined how it would be and was then shocked and disheartened to realise it was nothing like it said on the tin. That is when the guilt starts - "why can't I do this? It's supposed to be easy!" - No, it's supposed to be natural. Natural and easy are not the same thing. And there in lies the rub.

Giving birth is also a "natural" act - doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Pregnant women are given all the information they need to make an informed choice about their labor and delivery (in the Western world at any rate), are aware of the mechanics of it, that it will be painful and there are options depending on the experience they would like. The same level of information should be given when it comes to encouraging women to breastfeed. If you want more women to breastfeed, give them the tools to empower themselves to do it properly. Not flail about in a pool of raging hormones alone wondering why they're "failing" at it because they had no idea what it was going to be like.

I agree, how come I'm not allowed to say that I think three early inductions and only one epidural and no cs is something I'm proud of? Three pgs and all the medication that involves for me? I am more proud of that than bf...

I never ever comment on my friends infant feeding choices. Up to them and nothing to do with me. The only time I am ever tempted is when they are doing that silly water in a thermos thing to make up feeds when out and about.

Aww thanks Only1scoop!

Stroke - I don't know one person who thinks formula or formula feeding is 'evil'.

And I know a lot of midwives and lactivists.

That's just the sort of buggery stupid comment people who are trying to polarise opinion on the issue (as you are) make.

People aren't aware of the evidence on ff and SIDS, and increased hospital admissions and GP appointments - for starters. As evidenced by the utter disbelief and derision and downright denial that any mention of these things tends to provoke here.

Rubbishing the evidence is a hugely popular activity on mumsnet - especially by people who haven't read it.

Um any risks from ff are minuscule in this country(often swept under the carpet by posters like yourself). There are risks with bf we could over inflate if you like.

Why do you say that? What makes being in this country mean they are minimal?