To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

people are so used to planning their lives now so they plan a birth and they plan how they are going to bring up the child. It is one area you can't plan but they still keep their 'ideal' in mind and feel they have 'failed' if they don't manage it. They have a lot of emotions bound up in it ( not to mention hormones)- feeding can't help being an emotive subject.

I'm not convinced research does conclusively prove that BF is better for babies; it shows a correlation

Fortunately researchers are also aware of confounding factors and adjust their analysis for these as much as possible. There is a huge body of positive evidence. Also there are known biological mechanisms for the benefits of bm for mother and baby. I don't think that we are doing anyone any favours by saying that breastfeeding isn't associated with health benefits for mum and baby.

OP, I think first of all that new mothers are exhausted, emotional, sometimes unhappy with their birth, and usually finding a first baby harder than they had anticipated. They are primed to feel emotional.

The milk you choose is the sole source of nutrition for the baby for six months and, yes, it is a very important decision.

I think women who struggle with breastfeeding are often emotional about it because whilst there is so much promotion of the benefits of breastfeeding, but often not the support available when you hit problems. Even normal 'problems' like cluster feeding which feel very worrying the first time. In many parts of society so many babies are formula fed that women don't have previous experience of seeing women breasrfeed and the collective knowledge from other women is lost. Your mum can't correct your latch, your sister can't reassure you that cluster feeding is normal, your husband is back at work so you are trying to do the housework whilst building up your supply.

Breastfeeding is a skill to be learnt and mum's feel that they are 'failing' when actually help and advice is lacking. The pressure is put on the individual mother to get it right, rather than the family, community and health service to provide support.

Many people see the pattern of the young formula fed infant as normal- sleeping longer, feeding less often, no cluster feeding- so you are often asked 'is she sleeping through yet?' about tiny babies, or told that your milk is obviously not enough when cluster feeding.

When I was pregnant 3 years ago I went to all my nhs classes and a course with nct, at no time was df mentioned at all. The nice guidelines say breast is best but that is for the whole world including parents whit no access to clean water. the nhs simple follows these guidelines (maybe with additional research?).
Personally my boy was ff, my milk came in but not out. Ouch! I will fr my second without trying bf. Whilst there may be some health benefits for th child to bf I believe the benefits to the mother (and other carers who can get involved) are excellent. An unexpected benefit for me was that it took my boy 20 minutes to sink a bottle so we could sit and cuddle for all of that, I never needed to sit and watch telly because he was feeding for hours.

I'm afraid you will find every decision you make for your dd emotive... Weaning, sleep training, back to work, nursery, and the list goes on. I just think this first one gets special mention for being the first and also quite a long and obvious choice,

Congrats on your little lady
K

I ff my DTs. Didn't feel any guilt at all and it was what I wanted to do (had no interest in bf at all), it was best for them and best for me. It was lovely, easy and stress free, DH took one and I took the other and we were happy with our little family. No regrets at all.

I have no idea why people are so interested or care how others feed their babies tbh. Do what works for you, ff or bf, as long as you are enjoying your baby and are happy that's the main thing.

I'm not convinced research does conclusively prove that BF is better for babies; it shows a correlation between BF and a number of positive factors which may well come down to social and economic reasons (ie wealthy people with stable lives tend to BF so it's the wealth and stability that helps not the source of milk).

It's only in some countries - such as the UK - where breast feeding is more or less prevalent along class/socio-economic lines. In other countries, everyone does it, and everyone, regardless of class/economic lines benefits.

Look, a mother's place is in the wrong. You're judged and frowned upon for breast feeding and for bottle feeding. Whatever the means for getting milk into your baby, there'll be someone popping up from behind a hedge, tutting and cats-bumming.

You gotta wonder why, right...?

For me it had nothing to do with societal pressure or guilt, although maybe there was a bit of obligation in there. I was told it was best for my baby from numerous sources so that was that. And once the difficult part with the pain and mastitis was over, it was easier than ff would have been.

I formula fed all 3 of mine from birth, through choice and was and still am very happy with my decision. My youngest is now 3 so it's been a while. Formula feeding worked out really well for my first, I never found any of it a faff so was happy to do the same with my subsequent children.

I personally disagree that it's external pressure or society or any of that.

I genuinely believe that in the first few precious weeks it's because the ONLY thing you have to do to keep your baby alive is put milk in him/her. That's a LOT of focus on one aspect of parenthood, but the only one you need at the time. I didn't have an option (double mastectomy) but still managed to get my knickers in a twist about the conflicting FF advice available, which formula brands to use, the type of bottle/teat (I have half a WARDROBE full of discarded options), I sat on the floor and cried because I dropped a steralised bottle. And on and on. I had no pressure, no choice, no physical pain to go through and I still made it incredibly emotionally difficult on myself. Not to mention the lingering guilt that I "should" be BF.

Looking back, I got mercifully few negative comments but any HCP that asked how I was feeding it FELT like a judgement, every time I got advice from the HV, I FELT like a failure. But I honestly believe that's about the pressure I was putting on myself.

As DS has got older and other needs have materialised (keeping him entertained, safe, healthy), the sheer weight of emotion I invested in what and how I fed him have become diluted and waned.

I realise I didn't have the physical trials some of you have, in this regard, but it's just where I've come to, on reflection.

Oh and OP, I hope your issues get better, one way or another, but I'm sure they will.

Above all, don't beat yourself up, just keep getting some milk into your little bundle and it will be ok.

A mother's place is in the wrong because we're not seen as free and independent people by the world, we are seen as an adjunct of our children and defined as existing for them (obviously this is a generalisation and not applicable to everyone). Our behaviour and choices are freely judged by others as a result.

Which annoys me no end. The implication that I exist for others is most offensive, it's an extension of thousands of years of women being perceived to silently exist only to play certain roles (wife, mother, object of desire, carer, homemaker etc), not as independent beings in our own right.

I wish that women felt supported and comfortable whatever they decided: FF or BF. But there is judgement either way! Note the cafe that asked breastfeeding mothers to please do it in the toilets, or the piled on pressure formula feeders get to "just do the colostrum" or "persevere".

I agree with this though I don't think that we are doing anyone any favours by saying that breastfeeding isn't associated with health benefits for mum and baby and for me therein lies the problem. There IS a benefit so if you chose formula you might feel you are not doing your best for the baby, but that doesn't take into account the mother's health and wellbeing which is crucial! Its an example of the self sacrifice that mothers are supposed to display and in my opinion leads to people feeling depressed and anxious. I would love it if the maternity wards doled out chilled glasses of Champagne to all the new mums to say "bloody well done!" and gave the FF mums an extra glass!

I bf both my babies until they were 2 and the midwives/HVs I came into contact with were so pleased with me... at first. Then past a year they started grumbling about no health benefits etc etc so if you don't fit into a very narrow view of "what is right" you are screwed either way! May as well do what makes YOU happy - ergo the baby will be happy.

I think that is pretty good advice for the whole of the baby years TBH!

OP I say feed your baby how it best suits you. If you wish to switch to FF then that's fine or if you wish to continue with BF then do so and, if it's difficult, get help from a BF support worker.

Nothing wrong with doing mixed feeds or using a pump to express if that works for you too. Feeding can be very emotive but it doesn't have to be. As long as your child is thriving (and yours sounds like they are) and the method of feeding suits you then continue with what you're doing. A happy mum means a happy baby.

Because some women become really judgy and weird after having had kids and make other women feel bad?

There was no societal pressure for me as I live in a very working class area with abyssmal bf rates (think 6% after 6 months).
I was a dead annoying first time pregnant though and bought onto the health benefits wholesale (I still do but I'm less evangelical and judgy). As I had proudly proclaimed I will be bfing, I battled through near constant feeding, shredded nips, no break and hourly night wakings. In retrospect I would say continuing was 30% face save and 70% desire to give dd the best start.
I'm pg again and don't feel the same desire to be seen as an alpha mother. But I will be be bfing again so that I know both had the benefit and I can have a similar bond with both.

I think a big part of the problem is that we lead very private lives and when we have a baby we're suddenly made far more public.

I mix fed starting in hospital as DS was constantly hungry and the midwives suggested it. One top up and they were expressing surprise that I planned to continue to BF. Finally got out of hospital and away from them and my health visitor started on me about mix feeding before she even knew the story. Fortunately I'm educated and live in a big house so refusing to ever take DS to clinic (he had his jabs) wasn't a problem (they tend to seem most interested in mothers that fit a certain criteria). He's just turned two and he still gets the occasional feed.

I'm so grateful that I never had PND and had a great DH as that enabled me to opt out of all post-natal care a fortnight after giving birth. I don't think I'd have managed to mostly BF if I'd been getting quizzed by health visitors.

Observing my friends, they suffered so much anxiety over what their babies weighed that some started adding formula feeds purely because they thought they weren't putting on enough weight. Then the baby preferred bottles so they gave up. Which is fine but they were sad about it. And there had been no need for a bottle in the first place! My DS was quite small but always in the right aged clothes so I never worried.

It's great that the service is there for people that need it but too often the care is wrong. A mother worrying about how much her BF baby is eating may need feeding support and her baby weighing but she might just need some support and reassurance that she's a good mother.

Part of the problem for me was that I was so bombarded with positive messaging about bf and negativity about ff while I was pregnant. I went to bf workshops, had a bf specialist midwife come to my house, and even went to the bf support group before I gave birth. The clear message from all those places was that if you fail at bf it's because you didn't try hard enough and your baby would be condemned to a life of ill health if you didn't bf for at least 6 months. I'm ashamed to say I believed that hype and was quietly judgmental of friends who didn't bf. What a twat I was.

I just wish someone had told me things like - it really hurts, some people fail to lactate altogether for all sorts of reasons, that all the support in the world may not help, and that ff is perfectly good if that's what you choose or have no choice but to do.

I think it's all very well promoting the positive aspects of bf to pregnant women, but a dose of reality would also mean women don't feel under such pressure not to 'fail' their babies. And I also think it should be possible to sell the benefits of bf without making ff sound like such a negative alternative.

I had a terrible time.

Where I live (thing middle class and hippy), there is ALOT of pressure to BF. it's unbelievable really how much pressure there is. Everytime I saw the HV or went to a breastfeeding group to get help, they never ever suggested FF, when they really should have, especially because I was severely struggling and in enormous amount of pain at 3 months! Surely that isn't normal!

Tbh I continued because my LO was an adamant bottle refuser by the time I realised BF was not going to work and was destroying me. If I had been given the slightest encouragement for FF earlier, I think I would have tried it.

I started bf with both of my boys, didn't like it much and then ended up with mastitis and cracked nipples. Dreaded every feed and midwife literally 'screwed' first baby onto my breast. My lovely MIL and DM came in one after another one day when I was in tears, said 'I didn't bf any of mine for long and they seem to have survived, a happy baby helps make a happy baby'. I gave up after about three weeks and from then on absolutely adored motherhood ; both are now strapping 30 + year olds.
Don't beat yourself up; do what feels right for you. Your baby has had the important first feeds for immunity; you deserve to enjoy your PFB.

I never see this in rl. I bfed dc2 for 9 months but I dont think it makes much difference tbh and didnt try breastfeeding the others. None of our children are ever sick and I think its down to genes tbh.

There is a lack of understanding about breastfeeding from people who either didnt do it or gave up. Not that it matters or is a criticism. People say their baby would have died...in 99.9% of cases i find that highly unlikely. The truth is that breastfeeding is (often) bloody hard and painful and your baby may loose weight and cry with hunger a lot in the first 4-6 weeks. But that is what it is and many new mums don't know that or get a shock and feel such guilt at their own fury at the pain and worry about babys weight and move to ff. I stuck through that and it was worth it. Once through the hell i understood the process much better but there is no easy way through it for some mums. Im proud i did but simply don't care what others choose. if anyone asks about it Im happy to chat about the process of it all, its quite fascinating. But although it took my first over a month to hit birth weight (midwives going mad about it and him crying day and night), he wasn't going to die and once ilbf established properly he thrived and had a great immune system for it I believe.

Breastfeeding is part of the normal physiological and hormonal 'trajectory' of having a baby, from conception, through pregnancy, to birth, to breastfeeding. Stepping outside of the trajectory, which is sometimes essential - so for example with assisted conception, or by giving birth early, giving birth by c-section, giving birth with an epidural, and/or bottle feeding can sometimes have an unsettling affect on us, just as it would to any mammal. I think the body has an expectation of maternity and disrupting it can leave us feeling - well, things we don't expect or things we don't fully understand.

Women who breastfeed are in a hormonal sense physiologically different from women who are not breastfeeding - they have biologically 'normal' hormones for someone caring for a small baby. I think it's very hard to step away from this sometimes. I found that the experience of caring for a baby who you are breastfeeding is very different from the experience of caring for a baby who you are bottle feeding. Breastfeeding can draw you and your baby into a very close physical relationship - your bodies work in sync with each other, and when it works well it can be very satisfying in an unthinking, fluid, organic way.

Can I just put as a disclaimer on this post - because disclaimers are always necessary in relation to this issue: I'm not arguing that natural conception etc is 'better' - I know it's a case of 'needs must' and all that, and that some women are hugely unhappy as mothers even following completely normal pregnancies/births/uncomplicated breastfeeding.

I'm just pointing out that there are powerful hormonal and instinctive forces at work in all the stages of conception, pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period, and it doesn't make sense to me to disregard them when we are thinking about the experience of becoming a mother.

Would also want to add - that people only say 'it doesn't matter if you stop/do something different' in relation to feeding your baby IF YOU ARE BREASTFEEDING. If a mother is struggling with bottle feeding because her baby isn't doing well on formula nobody will say 'well you've tried your best, have you thought about trying to relactate?'. I think this tells us everything about which way the pressure really lies with feeding choices in the UK.....

I didn't give a toss it was supposed to be best. I just desperately wanted a warm snuggly baby falling asleep at the breast, because that's what I'd seen happening with all the women in my family. It was a total shock that it wasn't to come easy to me.

Mainly though, I think it's hormonal and relates to adapting to being a mother. Whether you are bottle or breastfeeding it's one of your most fundamental tasks in the first few months, and anxieties attach to it. The health aspect is a bit of a straw man in ways because you don't find such strength of feeling about other research-based health choices in parenting. Women rarely end up crying about the fact their children won't eat peas for dinner or watch too much TV.

I also was entirely confused by all the advice. In the end, it was a struggle with my first and second babies and I supplemented from very early on with my first (nine days!), but we maintained our breastfeeding relationship until he was two years old and weaned when I was pregnant again. It was very healing when it all started to work and some of my loveliest memories are of my warm, snuggly babies falling asleep at the breast. However when the hormones dissipated, I sort of realised having a warm snuggly baby fall asleep in my arms after a bottle feed really wouldn't have felt less lovely. The emotions just go with the territory, I think.

"There is a lack of understanding about breastfeeding from people who either didnt do it or gave up. Not that it matters or is a criticism."

It does matter when the vast majority of the advice and opinion a struggling breastfeeding mum gets tends to come from women who don't understand or value breastfeeding, and from those with no confidence in it.

Breast fed both of mine for two years each, and I can honestly say that once I got over the first month it was easy and I was really glad I did it. For me, it was because I felt it was the best thing for my children and it was easier and cheaper than ff plus the weight loss is brilliant.

I think it depends on you as a person as even when breastfeeding I was never the type of mum that wanted to stay in all the time or always be with the baby. Personally I didn't see much difference either way but then I never had any problems with it so maybe if you do you tie more to it