To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

Because the 'breast is best' message, in itself obviously correct and unexceptionable, has translated into another 'pregnant women/mothers' bodies are public property' situation, exposing struggling, vulnerable mothers of small babies to criticism when they least need it.

I had never not considered breastfeeding, had done reading, an NCT course, was prepared for pain, latch problems, tongue ties etc. I dealt with the lack of bf support in the postnatal ward by using La Leche League, the NCT peer supporters, a BF group and a paid lactation consultant, used nipple shields and a supplemental feeding system for two months, and saw my GP for tests and HV several times. I had no supply.

I'm not an emotional person, and it had never occurred to me that I would be publicly judged for what was essentially a medical issue, so I was taken aback and my confidence knocked by covert and overt sneers and remarks from total strangers in cafés and parks, ranging from 'I notice you're not feeding him yourself' when my son was screaming in a park because he hated his pram to 'You can always tell FF babies from that fat, puffy look' said very loudly by mothers of toddlers in a Crouch End cafe.

I'd done my best to BF, and while I was very disappointed about it, it only occurred to me when I encountered that sneering and judging, that I was perceived to be feckless and lazy/irresponsible for giving formula in some eyes. It made the first couple of months much worse than they need have been, because at first, if I wanted to feed my son, I had to tape tubes of milk to my nipple under shields, which was horrible in public, and after two months, when my supply never came and I gave him a bottle, I had people commenting. It was nightmarish, and I still remember it with horror. I hope the sneerers rot.

Blue those ridiculous comments were dreadful....

Bf made ds ill - so ill that we very nearly lost him. He reacted badly to (considered safe) meds I was on.

I felt no guilt about giving up bf (we had a tough start - prem / nicu, expressed tube feeds etc) mainly, I think because I had never wanted to bf. No emotive reasons or anything - I just didn't want to. I did it because medical staff told me to.

The only guilt I felt was when we realised that ds was so poorly because of my meds. Thankfully he picked up as soon as we ff but watching him deteriorate in hospital was hell.

I still don't have any real emotions about bf though. If you want to, can and baby is well do it. If you don't want to, can't or baby is ill then don't. Nothing to do with anyone else.

Of course the downfall of daddy being able to feed baby is all the admiring glances of other women... As evidenced by us sitting in costa and a group of women all going "Aaw isn't he adorable feeding his baby" haha

I have a 3 year old and an 8 month old you were BF for 3 and 2 weeks respectively. They are pretty much the healthiest kids I know, they are happy, bright (well as bright as an 8 month old can be and generally just all round awesome!

As a result of this, the most emotion I can now come up re: BF vs FF is 'meh', even though both times at the time it was The Biggest Deal Ever!

Actually, in a way I'm quite glad that breastfeeding was so disastrous for me, otherwise I'm really worried I would have been one of those 'how can you give such a little baby formula milk from a bottle, it needs its mothers milk' types

"minifingers - 3 babies in and my worst experience was the one I fed to nine months. The bonding thing ime is absolute tosh."

In a culture where (outside of the NHS) breastfeeding is pretty much invisible in terms of the media /day to day life, is poorly understood and not valued (note all the posts on this thread basically which imply that it's basically irrelevant how a baby is fed), or well supported, then it's no surprise that women who do it sometimes find it emotionally and physically unfulfilling or difficult.

People don't want breastfeeding to matter to mothers or to babies because

• they personally don't want to do it
• they can't do it.
• they want to be on the side of the angels - saying 'breastfeeding matters' is hugely politically incorrect and an unpopular opinion among a population of mothers (as we have here in the UK) who mainly don't breastfeed.

And that's what drives most of the debate about the issue.

I have friends who will push through all adversity to bf, they feel that it is the only way and that ff is actually harmful, so that is that, they just do it. They will even donate milk if one of them is unable to bf due to complications at birth (one lady was in ICU after her delivery and a huge plea went out and people rallied round) which is wonderfully supportive. In fairness it is a difficult group of friends to be with if you are ff, so there is definitely peer pressure. I think that when we are a new at being a mother we tend to seek approval from those who have gone before and who we think are more experienced. You also want or need to have your own struggle (if you had one) justified.

On the other hand if you feel that ff is just as good for your baby as bf, which some studies have shown (...study based on first world ff with access to fresh water etc) then you are free from the pressure and can do as you please.

With DC1 and 2 I suffered with terrible guilt because I couldn't bf for various reasons (for a while I also subscribed to a very 'out there' magazine that decreed that all womans bodies were capable of bf and those that 'couldn't' were either not trying hard enough or had a physiological problem...make of that what you will).

By the time I gave birth to DC's 3 and 4 I had grown a much thicker skin and realised that whatever choice you made for your DC's would be judged so you may as well get on and do what you believe is best for your baby and for you.

I will never understand how other mothers have time to judge what other people are doing? no one's perfect, surely if you judge you are opening yourself up to be judged and so it goes on in one vicious circle. I think you can believe passionately that what you think is right without the need to make other people feel crap because they feel differently.

Sadly I don't think that it stops at bf/ff, I have friends who feel guilty about having a CS, I know people who think that using anything other than a sling is cruel, some of my friends think that school is bad for all children. Other friends disagree with home education even being allowed. The list is endless really.

If you listened to it all you would be left in no state to parent. Now the only friends that I have left are the none judgmental ones.

And it's the only area where educated people openly rubbish advice from health professionals which is targeted at halving the incidence of SIDS, and keeping babies out of GP's surgeries, on basis that 'I didn't do it and my kids are fine!'.

minifinger - I found it difficult because she would only feed with me standing up walking around. She fed every 90 mins day and night.

It came close to busting up my family. All stopped when she finally took a bottle.

Bf matters. Ok. For how long? Exclusively? Is exclusively expressing ok? I find that the actual day to day questions around bf ing are totally ignored. It becomes almost meaningless IMO. I also hate the nhs leaflets - I want the proper stats from studies not one line sum ups that treat me like a moron.

People don't want breastfeeding to matter to mothers or to babies

Should it matter though, if it makes mothers feel so utterly dreadful and guilt ridden? Or causes people who do ff to suffer nasty remarks from strangers at a time when they need support? Or causes friends to argue?

I think people don't want it to matter because they don't want to feel inadequate, or judged, or generally pretty crap, or at worst a failure as a mother. They want to turn up somewhere and not feel like leaving because their baby needs a feed and they don't want to be seen getting a bottle out.

It's not really that I don't want breastfeeding to matter, I don't know, I just see people (on here and in real life) who are really struggling and are really unhappy due to breastfeeding and I just think 'sweetie, a year from now you will barely remember any of this, it's really not worth the stress!' I don't say anything though ovbviously, as its not my business!

I have to say I do agree with Minifingers about the cultural thing - my mum is a Gp nurse and says that the breastfeeding rates in her surgery are far and away the highest amongst the women from Africa. Because there (probably for reasons to do with sanitation and preparing milk properly and despite nestles best efforts ) and in their culture over here, breastfeeding is just what you do, so they just get on with it.

I haven't read al the replies but just wanted to say I have wondered the same as you. I know there is absolutely nothing wrong with ff but when I bf my children it induces these feelings that make introducing a bottle at this stage (3 months, dc3) a no no for me. I don't know if it's stubbornness or just the pros outweighing the cons for me.

The way I see it is I know there have been studies but they are only on small groups whereas reality is its so rare for a baby to be breastfed nowadays that I dont see how it can be a massive health issue in this country.

As others have said, I'm sure hormones play a big part. As do mothers' expectations, and how we manage when reality doesn't match up with expectation.

FWIW I'm currently BF 8 week twins (also have a toddler) and almost every HCP / random person has advised me to switch to formula or mixed feeding "to give myself a break". Funnily enough, there haven't been any volunteers to administer said bottles or do any of the sterilising etc, so I'm yet to see how this would actually provide a break. plus I can prop them on my knees to BF so I have hands free to MN on phone at the same time

I mix fed right through til DS was 11 months, and it helped me to continue BF way longer than I would have otherwise. He only had one or maybe 2 bottles of formula a day, but it meant I could hand him to DH and go to bed in the evenings. He got the benefit of my milk for almost a year, and I was able to share a bit of the responsibility with DH. Mix feeding is brilliant.
Guidelines are just that: guidelines. Do what you like, and ignore everyone else!

For me it was the thing of people saying how difficult bf was for them but how they'd persevered.
I'd found it difficult and stopped which was right for me but them saying that made me feel I was weak or selfish for stopping.

Carrie there have actually been rather a lot of positive studies, many of them in other countries where breastfeeding rates are much higher than the UK, such as Scandinavia.

UNICEF has summarized some of the evidence here, with a focus on studies conducted in developed industrialized countries:
www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/News-and-Research/Research/Breastfeeding-research---An-overview/

Breastfeeding rates in the UK do drop off quite quickly, but lots of women start off breastfeeding (can't remember the %) initially.
UNICEF also did a UK analysis showing that modest increases in breastfeeding (either more women breastfeeding or existing breastfeeding doing it for longer) would have significant public health and financial benefits.

"Should it matter though, if it makes mothers feel so utterly dreadful and guilt ridden?"

All I can say is - I live in a pretty disadvantaged community where most mothers are from minority ethnic backgrounds and many newish immigrants. They almost all breastfeed, and most breastfeed for 6 months+. Many mixed feed. None of these mothers that I come across seems to have anything like the angst about breastfeeding that you see on mumsnet. They're quite happy and open about breastfeeding being the healthiest and best option for their baby - if they talk about feeding choices they don't hedge this round with disclaimers etc as English mums do. They think breastfeeding matters. If they have to stop they mourne the end of breastfeeding and don't feel the need to rubbish it and present it as something fundamentally problematic just because they have found it difficult.

Women here primarily look on feeding as just another lifestyle choice - and seem to bitterly resent efforts to present it as anything more important than that.

I won't wade into any debate, but my personal experience is the following:

Exclusively BFed DD1 through quite literally every problem you can imagine. Shredded nipples, woefully low supply following nearly dying in childbirth, breast refusal and a severe tongue tie (not diagnosed until she was 3 months old). I dosed myself up on domperidone, practiced biofeedback exercises to calm me down enough to get a good let down, hired a hospital grade pump. It took many many months of that sort of perseverance for BFing to become easy but I am so glad I did. It helped me get through horrific PND... I know others will say that stopping helped their PND, but for me keeping going felt so necessary. DD1 self-weaned at age 2.5 and despite the stress of those early months, we have happy memories aplenty.

DD2 much more straightforward. She is 5 and a bit months old and I don't even express for her. No PPH this time, no depression, and her tongue tie was snipped at 24 hours old. All good and she is such a sickeningly quick and efficient feeder that my periods even returned after a month -- the only downside this time!

Breastfeeding matters to me. It just does. And now my eldest is a bright, brilliant pre-schooler who eats plenty of crap from time to time, I am still glad that I stuck with it for those early years. I think formula is fine, I have absolutely no problem with mothers choosing or needing to use it, but it just never felt like an option for me, somehow.

Yeah Ive seen all that before and I breastfed exclusively for 9 months just for financial purposes but to me I never saw the importance of it for any other reason.

Reading about bloody Virginia stomach - made me completely paranoid about ff - still preys on my mind

I was just so determined to breastfeed. Combination of the health benefits (for both mother & baby) & the bonding aspect.

I also think it's really quite amazing how the female body works ie we carry a child for approx 9 months & we are then solely able to feed our babies too?

I had fertility issues, a horrific HSG procedure & cancer last year. Breastfeeding is one miracle in which my body hasn't let me down.

First 6 weeks were very very hard work. DS had sever tongue tie which wasn't snipped until 10 days old. He had gotten so used to the bottle (EBM) that gettin him onto breast was soul destroying but I knew I would regret it if I didn't give it my absolute all. He is now 14 weeks & it's am absolute dream.

He is the only grandchild on both sides & everyone lives nearby so getting time to ourselves is precious - I am the only one whi can feed him so when he is hungry he comes to mum regardless. It's so lovely & warms my heart spending this time with him.

Very fluffy but I am just so grateful for my son & so proud that we established breastfeeding.

minifingers - sometimes it is a lifestyle choice. Sometimes women want or need to return to work early. That is ok too, ff and the fact that women do have more options is good for society too.

I'm conflicted. I BF DS1 for six weeks, hated the constant feeding, resented the lack of sleep and DH snoring whilst I struggled with an 11pm to 4am cluster feed. I wanted to go out, have a drink and not be a fucking dairy cow for ten bastarding minutes. So, DS1 was put into Aptimil.

Then DS2 came along, at this point we had a big mortgage, I was only receiving SMP rather than the much more generous package I'd had before. We would struggle to afford formula. So DS2 is EBF, however he's also a joy to feed. He has what has been described by our health visitor as a textbook latch, I've never had the cracked, bleeding nipples with him in spite of never remembering to use lansinoh. He always went three hours between feeds, apart from a couple of weeks of early evening cluster feeds, he also started sleeping 11-7 very quickly.

So now I feel guilty that DS2 gets the start DS1 didn't. Can't win really.