To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

Well that's not how you pitched it at all - you implied benefits were 'minimal' (I disagree) so why bother. Never mentioned SCBU or babies losing weight - in which case I agree that their health is beyond what breastmilk can offer.

Looking at the stats and weighing up the pros and cons re my other child they were pretty minimal too.Certainly not worth a miserable mummy and his exposure to extreme stress.

think deep down the main reason I have persevered so far through the difficult last 3 1/2 weeks (difficult due to very traumatic delivery, tongue tie/latching problems, constant cluster feeding) is because I deep down, simply want to BF. I am a nurse, I know the health benefits of BF. Have lots of friends who have exclusively BF for 6-12+ months so part of me thinks "well if they can do it, why can't i?!". I am just hanging on in there waiting for it to get better....

I think that played a part for me to - and it did get very annoying when things weren't ideal or slightest hint of a problem and all and sundry and like why don't you ff - why be a martyr - here a bottle and ff it will be easier - it doesn't really matter if you ff- look here an article saying it doesn't matter - ignoring fact we'd done research prior to it all.

I'd like to think some of them were trying to be helpful -( which it wasn't at all) but do think there was more going on in most cases.

It was worse with second DS as everyone said it got better by 6 weeks which it had with first - but it took till 10 weeks with him as support was lacking - but everyone kept on with the 6 weeks deadline to me. Though with third DC never had a single bad moment.

As for not being criticised for bf - second area with low bf rate had two different GP have a go at me - as I didn't know the amount of fluids and another as it affected what I could have and GP didn't agree with bf. Had a pharmacist say it was stupid for similar reason for me to still feeding 5 month old. I encountered child centre support people who weren't happy with me bf at groups discretely in the corner when they actually realised I was doing that. I had HV on and on at me to top up with ff as my DC are born big then come down to their weight despite younger two obviously fine despite not following curves - putting some weight on and being very active. Not to mention the constant undermining and criticisms from both sides of the family and other mothers.

I do know it goes other way - DSis didn't want to bf and was made to feel awful about that by her MW - which was clearly unacceptable.

Obviously some case bf isn't best. I came close to that with pfb when thanks to piss poor advice my milk was delayed though lack of feeding and we got close to dehydration in pfb - was lucky MW picked up on it and I had to wake to feed and pump never more than 3 hours and we were carefully monitored - that could have been very bad very quickly. One reason why support is so important for mothers who do want to bf.

Sorry it didn't work out for you LePetitit probably would have made sense if you had mentioned your true reasons at the beginning rather than arguing an invisible ( to us) point for pages and pages.

Have a lovely evening all .

Something I never see is exactly how much the risk of this or that health problem increases in FF babies. Are we talking 1:100,000 increasing to 1:90,000? Or 1:100,000 increasing to 1:100?

Many of the themes of adult life are about managing acceptable risk. The narrative I often see around the BF debate (as around many debates that pit the mother's priorities against those of her child, such as controlled crying) implies that no level of risk is ever acceptable, in any context, however minimal, when it comes to the care of a child.

I just don't think this is sensible, and I also think it merits more feminist analysis than it gets.

I did if you read.

I'm no different than countless others who don't think it's worth the stress to themselves,baby or the obvious howling hunger and possible dehydration.

My opinions or experiences aren't exactly select,countless others feel and gave experienced the same.

LaPetit I mean I never see anything in any of the articles that report BF/FF studies quantifying exactly what the risk of this or that is. I go look at the studies themselves and I'm not qualified to translate the statistical reporting into something meaningful to me. So all I see is vaguely menacing 'is associated with increased risk of bla bla bla' and nothing that would be useful in assessing exactly how great the increase in risk is.

My hunch is that in many studies the increase in risk is statistically significant for the purpose of medical research but actually not very great from the perspective of a real person trying to decide real priorities.

the anti b/f feelings here are palpable
: real priorities
: countless others who dont think it's worth the stress..........
: etc
while at same time saying b/f's are critical of others
pot and kettle?
no wonder nhs feels they have to promote b/f against such prejudices

I'm not prejudiced. I've not done either and don't really have an axe to grind. But the thread title asked why it is such an emotive issue and - because I've been thinking about it a lot recently - I mused a bit about whether in part (given what are as far as I can make out relatively low stakes) this is less about actual feeding and risk than about a certain modern pressure on mothers to eliminate all risks to her child, irrespective of the cost to herself.

I get that for plenty of women BF involves no cost or sacrifice but for some it does as is regularly pointed out by people who had a miserable time of it before giving up. In that context I think the pressure is unwarranted, lacks context and sensitivity, and merits more feminist analysis than it gets.

To my eye that's a fairly nuanced position and does not equal 'anti-breastfeeding prejudice'

I think it does equal it when more is made of it(by some)than of the many other aspects of "a certain modern pressure on mothers to eliminate all risks to her child" I TOTALLY agree with you there, well said.I feel that for many who are ok with b/f,and who are luckily not having an awful time, it actually allows them to legitimately sit down and relax and maybe read a bit during feeding, and like they have to treat themselves to nourishing food and drink as it's for the baby anyway-as a feminist I feel that rubbishing it could mean a mother could have' no right' to do this poss in future, eg there'r better things she should be doing /the house is untidy/she'll neglect her diet for everyone else maybe
just imagine some of the above comments being made by a critcal DH/MIL
PS I've ALWAYS thought that the pro-b/f advice minimises any potential probs disgracefully : no wonder people feel let-down and a failure after being led to believe it'll be perfect

OMG - this thread has moved a lot since I have been out.
I don't know why this issue gets more air time than other parenting debates but it Definately does.

It is strange really because it is only such a small part of your child's whole life -
Some parents make a big deal about it - I suppose because it's a big deal to them but in reality when you move on from the feeding stage I don't think it is (except obviously for those people who feel proud years later). As you grow up you don't care how your baby fed you - your just grateful you were fed and loved.
As for other parenting issues - - my children eat 5 pieces of fruit a day - go to private school (because research shows they will do better there, get regular exercise, get at least 8 hours sleep a night etc etc) I am PROUD of all of that :)

And jazz, as a feminist, do you respect women's choice not to breast feed, just because it suits not to?

deadcert : Of Course!and I've never said anything else :basically,I think women shouldn't be made to feel bad about wanting to b/f(or not, obv!), and am sorry to say there's been a lot of that -not by you-on this thread(while at same time criticising b/fs for being smug and superior (wtf?))

70 : you have such a belittling condescending tone about some other people!!! :" Some parents"
"it's a big deal to them"
"(except obviously for those people who feel proud years later)."
(btw why do you feel proud about private school? supposing those who couldn't afford that were to sneer at you for your priorities there?:or would THAT just be sour grapes)
HONESTLY! why sneer at people?I give up
night all

I just find your comment odd whereby you seem to be suggesting that if a woman doesn't breast feed it's because she thinks she should be cleaning the house?

Stir-it-up thread. Are you sure you're not from a magazine OP?

No Jazzy THAT would be jealousy ;) (tongue in cheek).
I don't sneer at people really I don't -

Le petit, what you say is just ridiculous.
I am and other mothers am not putting myself on any pedestal. To put women down who have worked so hard to breast feed and been through so much to do it and suggest it is just luck is just plain nasty. Yes I am sure there are people who tried just as hard as me and failed. Does that make my achievement any less?
I suggest what you are saying is a dangerous thing. It makes women feel belittled when they should be proud of their acheivements as mothers.

I EBF my son despite tongue tie, pain and my Dad's death 8 weeks after DS was born. I haven't read the whole thread but to answer the question "why did I persevere?" Because I enjoyed the closeness it gave me to my son despite everything else that was going on. I found it calming to sit beside my dying dad, or at the funeral and bf his grandchild. Most of my family thought I should introduce formula so as my husband could feed DS and then I wouldn't have to bring a 6 week old into hospital. I was irrational and hormonal but I would have felt guilty if I had given him any formula.

Lucky is when baby latches on straight away, feeding goes well, mom and baby are happy and it's an enjoyable experience from the start.

Having cracked and blistered nipples, poor latch, every feed being a painful nightmare, a screaming baby and being an absolutely exhausted and broken mother but still working through it is not 'lucky' .

PS I've ALWAYS thought that the pro-b/f advice minimises any potential probs disgracefully : no wonder people feel let-down and a failure after being led to believe it'll be perfect

jazz - blatantly untrue or why be such a bitch to me for saying my bf experience was miserable? Including asking me why I continued when bottle refusal is so normal? I guess because post three months you have to say it was fluffy?

Another reason I think people find it very emotive is that it is the first real decision that you make for your baby, so obviously it is a Very Big Deal.

By the way, there are some major chips on shoulders on this thread (on both sides).

pomme...I honestly dont know what your on about I relly dont(eyes glazing over) just you read over some of your earlier posts to other people, before I was "such a bitch" to you,- in my opinion you were v bitchy to them : hence my post in the first place