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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

472 replies

Absofrigginlootly · 21/11/2014 05:35

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) Shock but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

OP posts:
tobysmum77 · 23/11/2014 10:52

swearing again Wink

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 23/11/2014 10:53

Agree toby and wasn't having a pop at you in my previous post I promise!

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 23/11/2014 10:54

swearing again

Shock
DeadCert · 23/11/2014 10:57

I suppose it just doesn't seem such an issue when you're faced with your own mortality.

I suppose as parents we all have different priorities and different ideals, whilst infant feeding may be a very big priority for some, others may focus on other aspects of parenting as a bigger priority. Everyone is just doing their best I suppose in their own circumstances. I honestly don't believe anyone other than immediate family care though. And I don't believe a child will "care" how they were fed but can see how a parent years later still would.

Writerwannabe83 · 23/11/2014 10:59

deadcert - it was me who said formula wasn't an option. I work in a job where we have extensive breast feeding training and so I knew the benefits of BF for both baby and mother and so BF'ing was very important to me. It certainly wasn't that I thought formula was evil or anything like that, my decision was based on the fact that breast milk is best for babies.

DS had to have formula two times in hospital after he was born as I had trouble feeding and I hated it. To me it felt wrong that someone else was feeding my baby (the midwife did it) and that something artificial was being put into his body.

The first 8 weeks of establishing breast feeding were absolute hell (cracked nipples, blistered nipples, in tears a lot, dreading feeds etc) and so I sought support from numerous sources and slowly things got better.

I can't comment on what I would have done if I'd had to go back to work because thankfully I wasn't in that position.

I do have an illness and was advised by a specialist nurse when I was pregnant that breast feeding wasn't in my best interests and was likely to destabilise one of my chronic conditions - she didn't tell me I shouldn't breast feed but I think she was trying to sway me towards formula in order to keep me healthy. I was worried about how BF may affect my health but it was more important to me to give my baby BM hence why I BF.

Over those first 8 weeks I nearly gave formula on about 3 occasions because of how utterly drained, upset and exhausted I was by BF'ing to the point where I asked DH to make up some formula. However, when he reappeared in the bedroom with the bottle I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I would have felt guilty and that I had let myself and DS down. That sounds awful I know but in that moment of time, that's how I felt.

I genuinely believe it is my job and my training that made me so determined to BF (to the point of nearly driving myself crazy) and that I felt pressured because of it. Whenever I popped into work with the baby I always got asked "Are you still breast feeding?"

Prior to my current job I worked in another job where BF was highly promoted and the day I had my baby one of my ex-colleagues from that job came to see me and one of the first things she said was that another colleague (the BF link nurse) had told her to tell me that she hoped I was breast feeding.

So I had external pressure to BF but at the same time I also knew that BM was best hence why I could laugh off people's comments.

I also received a lot of negative comments about me BF'ing, typically of family but also some friends, and that just made me more determined to do it.

My mind set was that unless there was a physiological reason why I couldn't BF, or unless BF'ing made me or DS ill, then formula wasn't an option.

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 23/11/2014 11:00

I suppose as parents we all have different priorities and different ideals, whilst infant feeding may be a very big priority for some, others may focus on other aspects of parenting as a bigger priority

Yes and that's absolutely fine - it's the people on here who imply that others are being ridiculous for seeing certain things as priority though which gets on my tits wick

DeadCert · 23/11/2014 11:15

Thanks writer, that's really interesting - quite curious what your job is now! Your colleagues sound a bit mental though!

Chippy, yes there are some odd comments on here, both from breastfeeding mums and formula feeding Mums. I can't help thinking that those who are making the more extreme comments, from both sides, are those that feel they have been judged for their feeding choices and therefore feel defensive.

I can honestly say, I feel 100% confident that I made the right decision for me to formula feed my children therefore I don't feel any guilt or remorse that I didn't. I can also, honestly say, I really couldn't give a flying crap how other babies are being fed - why would I? I also don't particularly care when they are rolling, walking, sitting up.....they're not my children. I care that other children that are close to me are loved and that their parents are happy.

I believe breastfeeding should of course be heavily discussed with parents, but so should formula feeding. Both have their benefits, whether they are health or lifestyle benefits. There is still bonding to be had with bottle feeding, and it doesn't necessarily mean the baby is being passed around. My daughter is 4 months old today and has only been fed by me, and on a few occasions her Dad. If parents aren't given the WHOLE picture, how can they make informed decisions. There are practical and emotional issues to both feeding options that aren't always obvious to new parents and these are important, not least how to safely make a bottle.

Writerwannabe83 · 23/11/2014 11:19

deadcert - I'm a paediatric nurse. I used to work on an acute admission medical ward for babies aged 0-2 and now I work with a HV team.

pommedeterre · 23/11/2014 11:29

I think risk evaluation is really interesting as a parent. Sil is pg with first and was being slightly sniffy about me having had small amounts if alcohol in all my pgs. She'd come from buying a second hand car seat from someone off ebay - sonething I would never ever consider doing. Made me think about it - we will all parent and have different priorities.

I also have a funny take on the guilt. With dd1 I stopped bf at 7/8 weeks and felt bad and embarrassed by my formula cartons in certain situations. I was delighted when dd2 latched on straight away. Nine months later when she had never taken a bottle or gone longer than 2 hours between feeds I was on my knees and totally over bf ing!

Certainly erased any guilt when I remembered all the happy times with dd1 between 3 and 9 months, dd2 cast them in a different light!

pommedeterre · 23/11/2014 11:30

deadcert - I totally heart you.

Amummyatlast · 23/11/2014 11:39

I was adamant that I was going to bf. I had done all the reading, NCT, classes etc. And so I vivedly remember sobbing on the sofa at 3am as DH gave her a bottle of formula (although I can't remember how old she was). I also remember frantically expressing into a little cup as she screamed, because she hadn't learned (at that stage) how to latch on properly. There was also the times when I had finally got her to sleep, that instead of sleeping myself (which I desparately needed) I tried expressing instead to get a reserve that DH could give her (pointless as I never got very much). Still, I continued, with the very occassional top-up of formula. And then, when it was finally starting to get easier, I lost my milk. Looking back, I think it's because I didn't look after myself properly. I was so intent on trying to feed her, and when DH was around, getting some sleep, I didn't feed myself properly or drink enough. So she ended up moving to formula at 3 months. And life because so much better. I could enjoy my baby.

Bodicea · 23/11/2014 12:49

L petit, bollocks it was down to luck. It was due to sheer bloody minded was and perseverance and I am offended by anyone that says me managing to keep bf was down to luck. I went through hell to keep it going when a lot of people would have given up not that I have a problem with that, I have no problems with formula feeding, but I have a right to be proud of myself!

Bodicea · 23/11/2014 12:51

By he way I agree hay it can be a hopeless cause for some people and there is a bit if luck involved but it is ridiculous when people suggest someone who managed to bf shouldn't be proud of themselves.

LePetitMarseillais · 23/11/2014 13:42

Chippy the figures in the stats are tiny,the research hard to prove anyway given the huge amount of other factors, some benefits can be provided in other ways,much of the research changes backwards and forwards anyway(eczema being a case in point).

Seriously for a mother in this country I see absolutely zilch reason to get hot and bothered about it.

It's preferable but so are plenty of other far weightier parenting decisions.

LePetitMarseillais · 23/11/2014 13:45

Sorry I see no reason for you to put yourself on any pedestal higher than anybody else.You have no idea how hard others have tried.Plenty may have tried harder than you and failed.Luck (as regards your body,pain threshold,circumstances,baby's body and yes it actually working)does play a part and it is very dangerous to say otherwise.

OTheHugeManatee · 23/11/2014 13:46

I have never either BF or FF (ttc for no. 1 right now) so I don't really have an axe to grind here . But I think about this a lot as I don't really know what side I'll come down on when the time comes.

As far as I can make out from reading various studies BF / FF doesn't make much difference if you live in the UK. Sure, if you are making up bottles of formula with infected well water in a war-torn refugee camp, breast is self-evidently better. But if you compare loved, wanted babies born into a middle-class Western family with good healthcare, clean water/environment etc, the differences in outcomes for BF and FF babies seem to be statistically insignificant.

So if FF doesn't actually make that much difference to Western babies in otherwise comfortable homes, this means that the moralising element to the conversation is not about the feeding as such but about something else. What is that something else? Unless a mother has had a double mastectomy, suffered for weeks before giving up or otherwise proved that she's not FF by choice, there's always this undertone of judgement. She must be doing it to suit herself rather than her baby. The same debate happens around CC, incidentally - parents who cheerfully admit they sleep trained so their infant would fit in with their routines get the same quiet hisses of 'selfish'. How dare a woman ever prioritise other needs - even, shock, horror, her own - over those of her baby?

I think a significant chunk of the BF/FF debate (and indeed most of the first-world parenting debates) is in fact less about ensuring the best for a baby than about reinforcing the socialisation women receive all through their lives to always put themselves second.

People go on about how BF levels are low, and that's a bad thing, and it's because of those evil formula advertisers etc etc. But what about if BF levels are low because to lots of women it's not a very enjoyable experience, and there's a perfectly decent alternative available that enables them to share night feeds with the father, and makes it easier to go back to work? SIL went back to work when my niece was 6mo, and FF to make that easier - should she be judged?

I guess what I'm saying is that the extreme pressure to BF only makes sense to me if you take as a basic premise the idea that women should make absolutely any sacrifice necessary to optimise every possible aspect of their child's life. Even if that includes compromising their career, their mental health or equal parenting with their partner.

But is this really worth it given that it doesn't seem to make that much difference? And should we be buying into the idea that motherhood has to be all about sacrifice, with no context, no compromise and no respite for the mother at all? Certainly I don't see an equivalent narrative of total sacrifice being directed at dads. I'm just thinking out loud I guess...

minifingers · 23/11/2014 14:18

If whether you are able to breastfeed, or how long you breastfeed was primarily down to luck you'd see consistent rates of breastfeeding continuation across all sectors of society and between countries.

In Norway 80% of babies are still breastfed at 6 months

In the UK only 25% of babies are still breastfed at 6 months.

That's not down to luck, physiology or even (completely) down to good support.

Threads like this show why breastfeeding rates in the UK are so poor. Yes - women have poor support, but it's more than that. Breastfeeding is trivialised and seen as unimportant and pretty much irrelevant - there isn't the incentive to change things.

"I believe breastfeeding should of course be heavily discussed with parents, but so should formula feeding. Both have their benefits, whether they are health or lifestyle benefits"

Do you think that they are both equally healthy and offer equal 'lifestyle' benefits to both mothers and babies? Do you need to present them as equally healthy in order to make yourself appear even handed?

"Concentrating on one factor above all others isn't a balanced way of looking at things."

First thing - a baby who is fed formula from birth is ONLY fed formula and nothing else at all for 6 months (at least), so comparing it with other dietary choices after weaning isn't really sensible.

Secondly - why do you make an assumption that people who have strong feelings and beliefs about the importance of breast milk for babies have simply no interest or opinions on other aspects of child nutrition? I'm really bored with reading comments along the lines of 'People go on and on about breastfeeding and completely ignore the fact that loads of children grow up eating nothing but chicken nuggets and chips' on mumsnet. Because it's bollocks frankly. People who care about how newborns are fed generally also care about child nutrition and child health and don't ever argue that as long as a child is breastfed nobody needs to worry about any other aspects of lifestyle or nutrition. In fact it's one of those strawman arguments that is constantly being wheeled out on threads about breastfeeding in order to polarise opinion - I really wish people wouldn't do it. The irony is that those children who have the worst diet in childhood are also those least likely to have ever been breastfed so they get the worst of everything. :-(

"I just struggle to see an enormous crisis in loved babies being looked after and given formula. Maybe when all babies are loved and safe then comparatively we can all get hoikey pants about formula."

OK - who has talked about 'huge crisis'?

Again - you putting attributing opinions to me and others and putting words in people's mouths that don't belong there.

Why don't you ask yourself why you feel the need to create false arguments in relation to this issue? Why can't you deal with what is actually being said, rather than making things up and then knocking them down?

And I absolutely appreciate that you don't think this is an issue of importance but you have to allow other people to hold a different opinion.

According to that UNICEF research overview that I linked to, full breastfeeding would prevent more than half of all hospitalisations for diarrhoea in the UK of babies and more than 1 in 4 hospitalisations for respiratory illness. We all adore our children and try to care for them as best we can, but sometimes love is not enough to keep them out of hospital, but breastfeeding sometimes WILL. And I say that as someone whose much adored BOTTLE FED baby ended up being hospitalised with a gastric illness that they may have got from formula. Me loving her and being a good parent wasn't enough to stop her getting sick.

Again - to put a disclaimer on this: I'm not saying all women can or should breastfeed, or that women who don't are bad or implying that formula is 'evil' (another bloody stupid word that only ever crops up in the comments of people trying to criticise breastfeeding advocacy and polarise opinion on the issue - it's pretty much never used or implied by breastfeeding advocates themselves). It's not. I'm making a case that we should be able to discuss this issue like adults and talk freely about it without people engaging in character assassination.

minifingers · 23/11/2014 14:30

"As far as I can make out from reading various studies BF / FF doesn't make much difference if you live in the UK."

Have you read the UNICEF review of the evidence?

"http://www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/News-and-Research/Research/Breastfeeding-research---An-overview/"

SIDS is still the most common cause of death in babies under 1 in the UK. The research quoted on the UNICEF site suggests that exclusive breastfeeding at one month of age appears may halve the risk of SIDS.

Are you really making a case that there are no benefits to breastfeeding in the UK?

pommedeterre · 23/11/2014 14:45

minifingers - re the hospitalization issue isn't that what the new rotavirus vaccine is for?

What is the definition of 'bf'? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? 16 weeks? All the way to fully weaned? The two years the who recommends?

I find the lack of timescales we are given vexing.

Bf stops me being me and so judging how long to sacrifice myself for is hard!

manatee - it's definitely a feminist issue. There was a debate on this on the feminist board recently.

Bambamb · 23/11/2014 14:46

I see no reason for you to put yourself on any pedestal higher than anybody else

Why is being proud of breastfeeding putting yourself on a pedestal?
Is this the same for all personal achievements or only breastfeeding?
I studied hard for my maths GCSE and got an A. I'm proud. Am I allowed to be proud of that? Or should I not mention it incase I make someone who got a C feel bad?

pommedeterre · 23/11/2014 14:53

I suppose the problem is that online you say things you wouldn't say irl.

I don't often talk about things I'm proud of myself for - I just am! Online you're more likely to state it.

The problem with bf is the emotion and that it is seen as superior and doing the best for your baby. If someone says they got an a in Maths you might go 'oo well done I was shit at Maths, I was all about the arts' (or indeed, 'oh nevermind, I got the full a* ' heehee). With anything to do with babies emotions are running high and things are heightened. There is also no definite 'grade' and no alternative to be 'good at' (because apparently birth and baby sleeping are ALWAYS luck and bf never is Hmm ).

milkpudding · 23/11/2014 14:57

70 breastfeeding does not increase the risk of inflammatory breast cancer. Breastfeeding reduces the risk of breast cancer in general in the mother. There is little data about inflammatory breast cancer (a rarer form of breast cancer)
and breastfeeding.

OTheHuge the evidence does show that breastfeeding has health benefits for both baby and mother, both short term and long term for baby. Yes, even in developed countries with clean water. That is why the NHS encourages breastfeeding (but unfortunately with a lower budget than Nestle, Danone st al) and why UNICEF published an economic analysis of the substantial financial benefits of increased breastfeeding rates/ durations to the UK, in terms of NHS savings and increased economic productivity.

So there are benefits from breastfeeding a UK child.

Obviously the individual mother needs to weigh up the magnitude of these benefits against the 'cost' of breastfeeding for her family. Maybe you look at that data and feel the benefits are slight for the time/ effort/ sacrifice involved. I look at the same data and feel that sacrificing some sleep and personal freedom for 6 months + is a no brainer in the trade off.

A woman who struggles to breastfeed or has other responsibilities may have a higher 'cost' to weigh up. However it disappoints me that society often values mothering (and fathering) young babies as less important than returning to work. I would also weigh a long term benefit over a short term benefit (long term health benefits over more sleep), others may think differently....

It is not just the health benefits- breast milk is easily digested by babies, formula is harder to digest (hence they feed less often) and babies are prone to constipation. Breast milk is available instantly, no waiting whilst it is prepped. Baby can choose to take more dilute breast milk when they are thirsty rather than hungry. There are lots of others pros.

I don't see breastfeeding as a sacrifice, I really don't. It is a relationship between my baby and myself. I have the option to express and share night feeds, spend time away, go back to work, I very rarely take those options because it is a pleasure rather than a chore.

Breastfeeding promotion pales in comparison to promotion by formula companies. They irresponsibly promote formula in developing countries with dishonest advertising (see Danone in Turkey). They send unsolicited milk samples to new mums in the US (formula in the first few weeks reduces your breast milk supply). There is an international WHO code for marketing formula; they break it. In the UK we have laws to prevent the marketing of formula for under 6 months, but companies to their best to get around this. They are unethical, putting profits above the lives of babies. I really, really do not want to give any money to formula companies.

Writerwannabe83 · 23/11/2014 14:59

I really don't understand how will all the extensive research that is out there that some people can still think there's "not much difference" between formula and breast milk.

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 23/11/2014 15:02

LePetit I really don't know what your agenda is anymore with your insistence that bteastfeedingia nothing special and there no benefits. It's like me coming on here and saying "I believe that eating chocolate will make me taller, there no evidence to say it won't, that's what I believe so there". In other words, you are spouting bollocks and aren't willing to admit you're spouting bollocks. I'm not sure what shape that chip on your shoulder is but its tiresome now that you're attacking people's achievements simply because you wouldn't see breastfeeding as an achievement.

And as for people who really think that giving a newborn baby the lab-altered milk of another species is equal to giving them normal milk that's made just for them from source, I have no words for that kind of delusion.

pommedeterre · 23/11/2014 15:03

milk - I like the (and fathering) in brackets because that is rather the point isn't it?

Also, anytime a surgeon is operating on you or a loved one or indeed anytime a car is driving towards you, let's hope they don't live in a bf household hey.

My baby has been shitting everyday since he went on formula instead of the once a week and sore tummy with bm. Oh I know, anecdotal, anecdotal. However, it's my baby I care about Wink