To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

Maybe I misunderstood 70 I thought you said BF mothers thrive on making others feel guilty??
That's how I read your comment at 08.59 - apologies if that's not what you meant .

.

Hmmm I care about far more beneficial things for my dc.

The many books I read to them,the food I will feed them over 18 years(not a trifling few months), the screen time I limit,the exercise I provide,the homework and educational support I give,the values I teach.......

This over emphasis by a few on something so fleeting and which has a far smaller impact on the lives of children than all the above is bizarre.I don't even given a moments thought to the bm they had.

Sorry if you don't like that.

If bfing benefits were kept a little more in proportion and the scaremongering as regards ffing wasn't so eagerly pushed I'd have a little more time for pro bfing posters.As it is I simply close my ears to anything they have to say as it never changes.

Alpaca it is partly down to luck, of course not entirely. You cannot via the Internet diagnose peoples breastfeeding problems as many self appointed experts seem to believe. I did not have enough milk, that is fact you are not in a position to say that either me or petit is wrong. This 'more support and everyone would succeed' attitude is what adds to the guilt. It is often meant to be well meaning but it makes people defensive.

and ffs of course breastfeeding when it works well is best. But it is only one factor in a persons overall health. Not saying it isnt important but most people/ children don't achieve ideal healthy lifestyles. dd and I gasp baked some chocolate Brownies yesterday, it would be healthier to have fruit salad for pudding.

I really don't understand why people have to make it into a big deal great if it works for you, if it doesn't then it doesn't. Just like it's not ideal to have overweight parents but it's hardly a guarantee of bad health either.

I will chippy just about to go shopping but will do so when I get home - I think I was responding actually to the comment that BF doesn't cause cancer rather than trying to start a cancer argument. obviously this is something I know about !!!
Could you please stop swearing at me as well -

I care greatly about those things as well Lepetit especially diet and books - they are huge things to me . My DC didn't go from BM to pot noodle !

I don't know why you are saying "sorry if you don't like it" I really don't care howyou fed your DC but I care deeply about how I fed mine and so was responding to your constant need to tell us all that BF doesn't matter to anyone ...

Really must go - sorry Alpaca that should say the guilt some BF mothers feel (not feed)
I think guilt goes with motherhood but is not helped by lots of external forces x

I didnt diagnose anyones problems I disagreed only on the point it is all down to luck and agreed on the other points
I was agreeing that successful BF is multifactorial and stating support is often vital -not just luck although I acknowledged I was lucky to have an easy birth and recovery .

70 : you've used some quite insulting and disaproving words/phrases here: "the perceived benefits are not worth making life miserable for(IMHO)#
"dont give a stuff(if they ever did)"
"getting hung up on BF/FF is bonkers"
"what needs to be quashed"
"you want to think there is some huge benefit then good for you" "..........have far more bearing .............if you think otherwise then that's up to you."
"the mother may care but honestly no one else does( why would they?)"
I'm feeling totally disaproved here of thinking b/f was more than some silly little woman's neurotic whim and actually quite guilty for having done it(when someone else could have ff for me so I could do more sensible things like housework,say):glad you weren't my MIL or I'd have felt like an idiot for doing it-SORRY! just remembered it's the b/f lot that are supposed to make you feel bad
AND BTW I never preached at any other mum about it either

: not getting the Humble bit here I'm afraid

I do agree -as a sensible person despite b/f-that it's not worth all the trauma :while preg I just thought "good if it works out, if not that's fine too"
It really seems here that some women aren't getting the help and teaching they need from midwives with LOTS of TIME for b/f who aren't having to rush off somewhere to do some other task; is it possible they're not getting taught about it themselves,or have they just got too much other stuff to do?
I do agree that it doesn't come naturally, most/all new mothers(and babies) have to be shown how if they're wanting to b/f,but NO ONE should feel guilty if not

I agree chippy, I don't care that other people in the future might not care how I fed my baby but I do care and will always care. We make decisions and take actions that are important to us not because of how others may feel at some point in the future.

To say 'nobody cares in the future so why bother' is just ridiculous.

The mother cares and that's what matters.

There are some posters here who are extremely passionate and proud regarding the choices they made regarding feeding their dc. It clearly WILL matter to them in 20 years time because they have expressed that is how they feel.

I don't understand what is wrong with that at all.

I think bring is really important. By this I mean if you live in a part of the world where there is irregular water and conditions of poverty which impact how clear your water is then it is much better to breastfeed for the health of your baby.

Diarrhoea and dehydration are real killers in part of the world for children under 5.

good alpaca, just making the point. It started to feel that it was going that way and I've had people arguing it before. The point about birth recovery is interesting because I had normal deliveries also.

There's nothing wrong with caring deeply about it. I also cared deeply and ended up with pnd after dd1 due to feeling like a total and utter failure as a mother.

With the experience I had I have to just see breastfeeding as one factor because it just didn't work out for me? In the end you have to accept your lot in life and be grateful for what you've got and concentrate the old importance on something else.

It's like this - because we cannot turn back time we will never know the effects of a child who is EBF vs the very same child if they were exclusively FF. I don't know wether or not by DDs asthma and eczema would have been worse if I'd FF her.

What we do know however are facts. Here's a fact - BFing reduces the risk in cancer of both mum and baby. Another fact - BFing can reduce the severity of asthma and eczema. BFing also drastically reduces the risk of ear infections. These are things we actually know.

So whilst you may not be able to walk into a room of 10 year olds, or 30 year olds or 80 year olds and point at them saying "she was FF, he was BF" etc (and why would you, it's not like FF turns your skin green) it doesn't mean the person standing there hasn't been affected in the long term by the way they were fed. Someone standing there may have avoided cancer because they were BF, or have lived with ear infections their entire lives because they weren't BF. They may suffer from eczema, but not as bad as if they had been FF. Just because we cant see it and compare clearly with our eyes it doesn't mean the way they were fed is irrelevant and it doesn't mean they aren't affected by it.

The bottom line is BFing is beneficial and will likely have a long term effect on your child's health. That is a fact. Saying that there is little difference between BF and FF children anyway so why bother will in many cases just not be true, and perpetuating this myth is insulting to everything BFing mums have worked hard to establish. the chances are my DD WILL benefit from BF, and I'm happy to take that chance with pride.

LePetit saying BFing is 'fleeting' is utter bollocks and very insulting and I hope walking round with your fingers in your ears saying "la la la in not listening" works out well for you in life.

70 apologies for swearing at you it's the only place I can drop F bombs now DD is starting to repeat everything I say

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott read down to baby milk issue.

Formula is not equal to bm.

I agree with you post is chippy.

PS I'd love to hear people's thoughts on what I said earlier about formula companies ramming FF down our throats at every opportunity - adverts, promotions, direct targeting on the Internet, hell even in maternity wards! How can you have a problem with 'pressure' from the NHS but not this kind of more prominent pressure from money making companies whose products aren't regulated and don't give a shit about your baby?

Interesting thread. Can I ask, a poster said "formula was never an option in my eyes" - why was that?

Is it just because you just really wanted to breastfeed or because of an actual issue with formula? If so, what is your particular issue with formula? What would you have done if you had an illness or had to go back to work?

that's all true chippy. But the same can be said for a baby born slightly prematurely, a child that never eats vegetables, a child who never had a book read to them at home, etc, etc?

Concentrating on one factor above all others isn't a balanced way of looking at things.

And I swore too, whoops

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/22/AR2007072201204.html

Super sad article - It is upsetting to read about Botswana.

In terms of advertising I boycotted aptimil because of v that awful 'moving on from breastfeeding' advert that physically made my skin crawl.

Deadcert - it is extremely rare for a women not be able to breastfeed through illness. My decision to. Bf was in part made because I knew I would be travelling to parts of the world where water and sanity issues could arise.

I also was aware that bring is superior for both the baby and mother. I have bf through norovirus, being in hospital and been extremely ill.

My issue with formula is the way it is promoted.

DeadCert that may have been me? Or something similar. I'll answer u anyway!

To me BF is natural and normal and FF never even entered my mind. It was, for me, a no brainer - it's well known BM is superior so I wanted to go with that. Plus the thought of faffing with bottles and sterilising wasn't for me, I am perpetually lazy . I pumped for a few months when I went back to work so she could have bottles at nursery. I'd have only turned to formula if BF and exclusively expressing hadn't worked out.

Yes toby lots of things have a long term effect not just how babies are fed as infants and toddlers. The difference is your examples are easier to spot in a grown adult. Bad diet could mean obesity. A prem baby could have visible long term health problems. My point was because BFing affects weren't as obvious on adults it doesn't negate them.

Thanks for answering, I can see where you are coming from. As I said earlier in the thread, my sister was diagnosed with bowel cancer a week after giving birth to her second child. She breastfed for the first year with her first so was hugely disappointed to not be able to with her second. However, as she was almost immediately having a 12 hour operation to remove her bowel and three cancerous tumours and then have a three week hospital stay, breastfeeding wasn't really a viable option for her at that point. She also lost three stone in 2 weeks so was running on empty anyway - slightly different to noroviris.

The one time I have witnessed breast feeding snobbery was when I was with my sister at a playgroup and she fed her baby with a bottle, she was halfway through her 2nd round of chemo. A stupid breastfeeding counsellor without being asked for her input or opinion said "didn't you consider a breast milk donor?"

I could have punched her in the face.

of course it doesn't negate them. My point really is in relation to breastfeeding and the original op the benefits of breastfeeding are often almost presented in isolation? I think it's one of the reasons it is 'emotive' and causes arguments.

In my opinion it should be about promoting healthy lifestyles throughout the whole life cycle, of which breastfeeding fits into naturally as an important part.

DeadCert that's awful and that person is a cuntwaffle. I don't think anyone in their right mind would question your sisters 'choice' (I use inverted commas as choices aren't something you are forced into liKe your sister was) to FF