AIBU to nag my friend to give her pets away?

[RoseMask]

Ok, so back story quickly. . My friend has 4 DD's ranging from 2-10. She is a good mum, not denying she is there for her kids as much as she can be. But I feel their lives are kinda ruined by her obsession with pets. I'm all up for having animals, of course I am, but this obsession I feel is affecting the kids. Their back garden is now just a dog run. Everything evolves around the animals, money etc. says she cant buy them clothes but can buy a £45 dog house that day kids don't have the best clothes, or the best shoes. They sleep in beds where the dogs have been sleeping or the cats. There is hair everywhere in the food, on the cooker, on the sinks. The smell of dog poo is beyond a joke in their house if their back windows are open. In total there are 13 'furry-ish animals' I hate going round there because they are just everywhere. Literally. Every room you go into, and its not like they are laid back type of animals. I just feel bad saying to her that there are to many, and that the kids should come before the animals. That even though she loves the animals, the kids don't, and when she has a sh*t fit, its always about the animals and I feel she isn't coping well with all of them but makes out she is, if that makes sense? I know the kids don't like them, because they have told me outright. Some of the pets she has, I was like WTF?! Why? She thinks I'm being ridiculous and that they are her pets, she would never get rid of them but sometimes I just question how many are to many? Especially when the kids have to help out with them when they don't want to. I think what annoys me the most, is that because she is on benefits, every penny for the children goes onto these animals. Nearly £1500 of that on a dog. But the kids don't get much! God, I sound awful moaning don't I? But I just feel for the kids sake, surely this is to much for them? Lost count how many times one dog has poo'd on the kids bed. Or how many of the kids quilts have turned into dog beds. Or how many toys have been destroyed in the process. But sometimes I feel IABU!! Because it is her life, and her money and her house, but I just Arrgghh!
I know my friends sister goes round alot, and she has said that she doesn't understand why her sister wants all the animals, but is worried to say anything because her sister gets on the defensive and I know that the sister does have my friends DD's alot for her. So doesn't want any problems to stop that from happening. But surely if the sister can see theres a problem, then it isn't just me? I just hate going on Facebook and seeing my friend upload a new picture of another pet she has.

We don't know if the bird dirt is cleaned away or not. A lot of people let the birds out to fly around (because it is cruel to cage them all the time) and then run around disinfecting after them.
I think if there is dried bird dirt everywhere it is a very serious issue for the humans, and needs to be addressed urgently, and a yard full of dog dirt is cruel to the dogs, and I think the RSPCA intervene for this ? (although if six dogs dollop just once each it will honk)
But it doesn't matter one bit if there is pet hair everywhere, or if the house smells or if the animals sleep in the beds, and it definitely doesn't matter how this woman spends her money or how many partners she has had.

If you feel the pets are living in overcrowded conditions then call the RSPCA. And if you are worried about the welfare of the children call SS. The household sounds totally chaotic and should be checked out.

It matters where she spends her money if the dogs aren't getting veterinary treatment and the kids aren't getting clothes.

Someone else up thread already explained how much it costs on average to feed the animals a week/month.

The benefits are relevant only In giving the example of how little someone has to live on and how much adequate care of animals plus children would cost. And how it must exceed what they are given.

The benefits bashing on here is rather distasteful and unnecessary.

Rosemask - glad that you phoned SS and I really hope they do something about it; glad you pushed the birdshit issue as well, that really bothers me. Obviously dogshit has toxoplasmosis risks too, but it's not airborne in the same way that the psittacosis can be from dried bird shit, feathers etc.

As an animal lover this sounds pretty shocking.

Neither the children nor the animals are getting the care they need.

I think you did the right thing by calling SS.

gentlehoney - have you RTFT? Or even all the OP's posts?
She quite clearly says that there is bird shit over everything, furniture, toys, even the tv.

I wasn't benefit bashing

the same would apply to people on low incomes. Including myself and dp.

Animals cost money. Fact.

Giles don't take it so personally! There were plenty of posts prior to yours that are benefit bashing.

thumbscrew you don't catch toxoplasma from dog faeces (mainly from cat faeces or contaminated soil) it is toxocara which can cause blindness that is the main worry (and salmonella, campylobacter....)

Animal hoarding is a recognised condition and very detrimental to the health and happiness of all involved, animals and humans. OP you did the right thing reporting it.

Thumbscrews, if you walk into any bird owner's house just after the birds have been exercised (as they have to be) there will be shite everywhere. It doesn't mean it isnt about to be dettolled.

When we raised a baby rook The disinfectant bottle barely left my hand but there was still missed bits so as I said, I imagine the bird situation is rather grim with two parrots and a bunch of children!

Giles, I don't think the OP said the children were underfed or the pets ill treated. (apart from the possible dog dirt mountain)

She said they aren't with a vets. That means no vaccinations or neutering or proper flea and worm treatment or teeth checks etc. And a dirty environment. That's pretty ill treated.

And the kids are going without and having to help out with the animals they don't even like or want. Their quilts are given to the dogs their toys are ruined. And they must stink. And it doesn't take a genius to work. Out that in a low income with all those animal mouths to feed their supply of necessities such as food can't exactly be plentiful.

It would be very unusual for four children to not like family pets. Very normal for them to grumble about having to clean them though, and I think this might have been misinterpreted.
Most people give flea and worming treatment at home and it is just as "proper" as vet treatment.
You can take animals for treatment as required without being on a vet plan or having insurance. We don't even know that she is on a low income. It cant be all that low if she has money to feed them all, even if the six dogs are chihuahuas rather than mastiffs.
I think we are all in agreement that the lady needs help and advice regarding the animals, but personally I would rather smell dog on a child than febreze.

Gentle you seem determined to believe that this woman is simply a Dr Doolittle filling her childrens lives with the wonder of having pets. Do you really think that the OP would call SS if that was the case?

Animals urinating and defecating around the house with no censure, bird droppings that are not cleaned up (you did, she isnt), more money spent on the animals food than the childrens, when she was told that the CB and CTC was for the kids she was angry that she would only have £60 a week left for the pets....this is not acceptable. And yes, it does cost a lot for pet food, which given that she is on out-of-work benefits means that not only are the kids going without, so are the pets.

If you read this thread and substituted alcohol for pets, how would you feel then?

gentle how can the children not be underfed? The woman spends £40 pw on food for five of them? Bot a lot more on dog food etc.

It is disingenuous to argue that the situation is good for the DDs or animals. The DDs are being neglected and are living in squalor with a mother who will not put them first. She is failing them as a parent.

Maybe gentle is like the woman in the OP's scenario, that's why she's defending it so vigorously?

Yep, thanks baking - got them mixed up.

gentle I don't think you have your priorities right, and you give an insight into how delusional people can be about animals. This woman should NOT have so many animals when she has four children and is short of money. There is filth, destruction, and neglect. You may want to smell dog on a child, but do the children want to be 'those kids who smell" at school? I love animals (we have five or six) but I have a big house with land, a job which provides enough money to feed everyone in it, and I am sufficiently clear-sighted to know that my dc's beds should not be crapped on, and their beloved toys should not be destroyed.

Gentle how on earth can't you see it.

It's alot of animals and alot of work for experienced dog owners with no kids. Physically impossible for a single mother of four. It's already been said she's on benefits which unless you are calling half the people on here liars, it's a pittance.we are a family of four with two bunnies. No way on this planet could we survive on 40 pound a week for food even shopping at aldi and lid without making some very serious sacrifices with regards to what we eat. And we aren't by any means extravagant.

There is absolutely no way on earth that those animals or children are being cared for properly.

And no, your bog standard bargain pet shop bargain bin bob Martin flea and worm treatment is neither safe or effective. I haven't bought front line in years as I no longer have my cat but three months supply for one cat. Cat not dog which is done by weights and increases in price accordingly, was 15 pounds.

Do the math

Not to mention if they are dirty and over crowded they will be stressed. If they are stressed that can exhibit in unusual behaviour including aggression. Then she will just be another useless pet owner adding to the statistics and the bad press animals have. Growing up with pets is something very special. Kids should be able to look back and have fond memories of their beloved animals not of living in a house stinking of excrement.

'It doesn't matter how she spends her money'? Money given to her primarily for the care of the children (she wouldn't get much as a single woman with no children) having to stretch to care for 13 animals as well? It is very much the State's business.

Gentle have you missed the bit in the op about the children living in squlaor, who feeds a family of 5 on £40 a week, whilst getting a dog house for £45. She cannot affor these animals or her 4 children, the conditions are dreadful. Op has said nearly every penny goes on the pets £1,500 on a dog wtaf. Why should the children look after those pets when they are being neglected because mum has them, they are not their choice. It is different them really wanting a dog/cat part of the condition of getting it, is that the kids help with it. Op has said hand on heart, she would choose her pets over her children, says it all really. Those kids need rescuing.

Yes it does matter how she spends her money, when the kids are getting substandard treatment, not being fed properly, and poor clothing, yes it certainly does matter.

Bird poo and pet hair everywhere, even in the food is unhygienic. No she cannot afford it if tbe family is being fed in only £40 a week, the children's clothes and shoes are not good.

Poor kids.

?The thing about the dogs defecating in the children's beds is alarming, afaik that indicates that the dog feels superior to the child...something along those lines.
The whole situation sounds grim and shocking.
I agree that 'animal hoarding' is often associated with mental health problems, I can think of a person who has 10 or 20 dogs, I am no longer in contact with said person but I think things had gotten out of hand.

and no she is NOT a good mum

I think gentlehoney is picturing a happy family home, where everyone enjoys the company of the pets. And I am sure that it is possible to have that many pets, and for the house and garden to stay clean, and for everyone's needs to be properly met - and I am sure that is what gentlehoney thinks is happening in this home.

However, I think the reality is very different to what she is picturing - a house where the children's beds get soiled by the dog so many times people have lost count, where animal and bird faeces are not cleared up from the garden or the house, where the animals are allowed to sleep in the children's beds, despite the fact that the children dislike this, where their toys get destroyed, where more is spent on pet food than on the children's food - I could go on - but it is a terrible, terrible picture of those children's lives.

I do think it is wonderful for children to have pets in their lives - but I think it is essential for them to have a clean home, clean beds, toys that aren't destroyed, decent food and a parent who puts them first - I don't get the impression that these children have any of these things, apart from the pets, who are being allowed to ruin their childhoods.

These children won't be able to bring any of their friends home, and, as a previous poster has said, it is very possible that they smell - of animals, and of general neglect, and that will have a huge impact on their social lives - children notice these things, and may well not want to play with them.

Pets are wonderful - but if you have children, your children should be your first priority, and it sounds as if her pets are this woman's first - and maybe only - priority. It sounds as if she has more pets than she can care for properly - she isn't keeping on top of cleaning up after them, and it is costing a large portion of her income to feed them.