AIBU to nag my friend to give her pets away?

[RoseMask]

Ok, so back story quickly. . My friend has 4 DD's ranging from 2-10. She is a good mum, not denying she is there for her kids as much as she can be. But I feel their lives are kinda ruined by her obsession with pets. I'm all up for having animals, of course I am, but this obsession I feel is affecting the kids. Their back garden is now just a dog run. Everything evolves around the animals, money etc. says she cant buy them clothes but can buy a £45 dog house that day kids don't have the best clothes, or the best shoes. They sleep in beds where the dogs have been sleeping or the cats. There is hair everywhere in the food, on the cooker, on the sinks. The smell of dog poo is beyond a joke in their house if their back windows are open. In total there are 13 'furry-ish animals' I hate going round there because they are just everywhere. Literally. Every room you go into, and its not like they are laid back type of animals. I just feel bad saying to her that there are to many, and that the kids should come before the animals. That even though she loves the animals, the kids don't, and when she has a sh*t fit, its always about the animals and I feel she isn't coping well with all of them but makes out she is, if that makes sense? I know the kids don't like them, because they have told me outright. Some of the pets she has, I was like WTF?! Why? She thinks I'm being ridiculous and that they are her pets, she would never get rid of them but sometimes I just question how many are to many? Especially when the kids have to help out with them when they don't want to. I think what annoys me the most, is that because she is on benefits, every penny for the children goes onto these animals. Nearly £1500 of that on a dog. But the kids don't get much! God, I sound awful moaning don't I? But I just feel for the kids sake, surely this is to much for them? Lost count how many times one dog has poo'd on the kids bed. Or how many of the kids quilts have turned into dog beds. Or how many toys have been destroyed in the process. But sometimes I feel IABU!! Because it is her life, and her money and her house, but I just Arrgghh!
I know my friends sister goes round alot, and she has said that she doesn't understand why her sister wants all the animals, but is worried to say anything because her sister gets on the defensive and I know that the sister does have my friends DD's alot for her. So doesn't want any problems to stop that from happening. But surely if the sister can see theres a problem, then it isn't just me? I just hate going on Facebook and seeing my friend upload a new picture of another pet she has.

I agree with rollonme, she is an awful mother subjecting her chikdren to those horrid living conditions, and letting them go without to keep her pets. Yes SS and RSPCA!

Am I the only one who thinks that the RSPCA & SS won't do anything?

After all, there's no law about children living cheek in jowl with animals.

The RSPCA look at just a few things - are the animals healthy (presumably yes), have they access to food and water (yes), are they being abused or neglected (no).

Re: the kids SS would presumably be looking at the exact same things. Thats not to say it shouldn't be flagged as then those organisations can be the ones making the judgement call - but I would be sceptical that anything would arise from it.

Anna the children are being neglected. Children shouldn't have animal shit in their beds

The house has animals shit everywhere the garden is full of it birds flying about the living conditions of both children and animals yes they will do something.

Anna, do you not think that social services would take the view that children living amongst animal faeces are being neglected. Not to mention the fact that the mother is chosing to spend more money on feeding the animals than her children? Surely those two things amount to neglect?

If its not a welfare issue for either animals or children, then it sounds like bliss.

People's opinions differ on what is suitable and what is not. Therefore if there is any risk of this being a welfare issue, the OP should have had no hesitation in reporting it to the appropriate authorities already.

Is it that bad? If so, why have you not reported it OP?

Anna; parents are expected to provide their children with a bed and clean bedding, they're expected to provide a reasonably hygenic (as in no risk of being blinded/killed by infections), being forced to sleep with animals in shit covered beds is extreme neglect and most ss areas would take that seriously. It is illegal to seriously neglect your children and endanger their health. If ss don't do anything then they're not doing their job.

If I've read correctly the dogs aren't shitting on the beds or even in the house.

They are shitting in the garden though & it obviously isn't being cleaned up.

diddl its in the OP - "I've lost count of the number of times one dog has shit on the kids beds"

I missed that

But if there's so much shit in the garden that the house stinks if windows are open, then that's obviously no good either.

"But sometimes I feel IABU!! Because it is her life, and her money and her house, but I just Arrgghh!"

Is it her money and her house though? Sounds like the taxpayer is funding this. Does she have a job (other than resident zookeeper)

I dont think whether she has a job or not is relevant. I hate it when people think that because a tiny amount of their tax goes towards benefits they think they should have a say in what it is spent on. As long as the family concerned is getting decent food and the bills are paid then what they choose to do with their money is up to them.

In this case it wouldnt matter if she had a job or not because whatever income she has will always go on the animals before the kids, that is the real issue. where her money comes from is irrelevant.

And yes it is her money, once it is paid to her it is hers, not yours or anyone elses.

Let's not bring in a 'As taxpayers, we are entitled to tell people what to spend their benefits on' attitude. Because we aren't and it isn't helpful.

I'm assuming that yes, it is her money. It's her money because she's applied for it and claimed it and if she wasn't entitled to it, she wouldn't be getting it.

Saying that, she's clearly not prioritising her spending in the way that a responsible parent should, regardless of where her income comes from. I am an animal lover and I would have far more than two cats if I could manage it, but I can't manage it because otherwise DS would suffer.

You need to contact SS or at the very least, NSPCC for advice first.

Yep agree with everyone else, RSPCA for animals welfare as well as environmental health for the amount of crap that must be about and social services to see that the kids are taken care of

If there is so much shit in the garden environmental health can force a clean up as it is a health hazard to neighbours as well as her and the kids and they will come round have a look over the fence and sniff before sending a letter telling her she has x days to sort it out or face action

Well like I said above, I definately think it needs to be flagged - its up to SS to judge neglect.

I wonder how they would prove there was poo in the beds if it didn't happen to be there at the time of inspection though? The kids would have to confirm it verbally, right?

We've all seen reports of "investigations" by SS which went nowhere in houses with far worse living conditions, where SS didn't even look into the bedrooms. I'm just a bit cynical, I suppose.

But yeah, I'd report it anyway. Its the right thing for the OP to do.

My mum knew a family like this. SS and RSPCA involved. Rspca removed the animals and banned them from keeping pets but the poor kids are still there.

I disagree bogeyface. At least some of the that money is paid to her for the benefit of her children. So it isn't really just hers. She does not have the right to spend child benefit, for example, on dog food.

Down that is a different issue though, and I agree that she should be prioritizing her spending towards her children. What I take issue with is "Is it her money? The taxpayer is funding it" , that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

If she was a higher rater tax payer, getting no state help at all and kept her children on basic rations while she supported her zoo then it would still be neglect and the source of her income has no bearing on that whatsoever.

I really hate that anyone who is on benefits is deemed to be more answerable for their behaviour than someone with a job because "I am paying for your lifestyle choices". Her children are being neglected and living in a potentially dangerous enviroment, that is the only issue that needs to be addressed here.

Lets not do the tapayers money thing people on benefits can have pets that really isn't theissue, I remember our last dog I wasn't well dh was away I didn't pick up poo for 5 days thatcwas 10 poos imagine 6 sets of poo the ops friend isn't picking upbyhat in it self has to be a health hazard

Actually I think tax payers are funding her choices, her choices to have 4 children, her choices to collect animals, her choices to dump the looking after of the animals on her kids, her choices to not clear up after the animals.

Benefits are allowing her to have no personal responsibility for her choices.

I have spoken to the SS about my concerns. I didn't give my name, just told them the situation. So it's all recorded now. I will obviously find out what will happen because she will no doubt tell me.
All of their dads are no in the picture at all, she hasn't got much family apart from her sister, but she works, has her own family to contend with too. I know that the small family she does see, when they mention the animals, she will physically remove them from the house. Don't come between her and her pets.
I get what people are saying about benefits etc, and I do agree in a way. I've said to her (jokingly) before that its Child benefit & Child tax , no animal benefit & tax, which she didn't find to amusing to say the least. Because it would work out she gets 'only £60 Income Support' which is technically hers to live of, were CB & CT is for the Children.
None of her animals are with vets, or insured. That would cost a bomb I suppose. She walks them kinda everyday, because her back garden backs onto a canal type place, so she just lets them all off over there, and jobs done.
The bird shit is one thing I really pressed on with SS. It's everywhere. On floors, beds, wardrobes, kitchen windows, radiators even the TV. Between the parrots and the dogs, the house is ruined. It smells sometimes like decomposing bodies, or burnt flesh (I know how that sounds, but it is true)
When I said she was a good mum, I meant in a sense of she shows so much love & affection to the DD's. She takes them out , although not with money, they still go on treasure hunt picnics, and they all go on bike rides together. They lay on the sofa and watch films and generally are a cuddly family. Just with extra unwanted guests

Well anyways, SS have been informed now. RSPCA won't do alot because animals are all fed, housed, watered and walked. So not a lot they can do unless SS say NO to them all, then I suppose RSPCA will have to step up and take them. Which would do no good really. Because she will probably just go and get more again anyways.

The bird poop is probably the worst of the health hazards, that really is bad- all over the furniture.

I do think however that it all depends who you get from SS about how much they perceive this as a problem. I have a friend/acquaintance who was visited for the same reason and to be honest, I was surprised they let it go- the dog/cat shit smell on entering the house was quite horrendous and it hadn't been hoovered for months and months (think matted hair carpet). But her children were fed, watered, loved and doing very well at school- with this one blind spot, and so they closed the case.

I also think sometimes people aren't aware how bad it has got, or just get used to dog shit being cleared up but not properly- I knew someone whose children couldn't use the garden because of the chicken shit on everything (including their toys) and also someone whose dog ran in and out of the house so the carpet was the colour of mud. I'm afraid people can be quite blind when it comes to their animals and with the best will in the world, it's not even clear SS intervention is needed, even though I couldn't stand living like that myself.

That's their judgement call though, and they will have seen enough animal'y houses to know if this one is beyond the pale and genuinely a danger/neglect.