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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:05

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

OP posts:
lucycant · 18/04/2015 16:54

There are lots of choices others think are not valid. Have you spent any time on AIBU?

cailindana · 18/04/2015 16:55

Well I don't agree with Hak on the anti-feminist thing. But in what way does something being anti-feminist make a choice not "valid" - as in what does the word "valid" mean in this context?

shewept · 18/04/2015 16:56

lucycant I disagree. In some situations it is a feminist issue. Not all situations. If I choose to do something through my own choice, not because someone tells me to. Its not an anti feminist choice. Its a person making a choice about their own body. Or as women are we not allowed to do that? Is our choice about what I do with mu body less valid, in Your opinion?

Because I think telling women they don't have full autonomy over their body could be seen as anti feminist.

cailindana · 18/04/2015 16:57

Somewhere people ask for explanations and examples because it is very hard to discuss things in abstraction. So if people say "feminists are men haters" then it's fair to ask for examples of that because it's hard to defend yourself against a blanket accusation that has no evidence.

Altinkum · 18/04/2015 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 18/04/2015 17:02

What I am trying to say is that in my opinion there are choices which are anti feminist. It doesn not mean that you are not a feminist if you make them- just that that particular choice is anti feminist. A choice is not automatically feminist because a woman makes it. That's why feminism is about more than choice. Somtimes the feminist choice is one you don't want to make.

cailindana · 18/04/2015 17:03

See what I don't understand is why people on the feminism board are considered bolshy and intimidating when posters like Altinkum have no problem saying things like "left winged opinionated brawler butch women." How does one engage with that? How do I, as a feminist, defend myself to someone who comes at me with such a strongly negative opinion? I have no problem at all with people who don't get feminism or who feel some of the viewpoints are too strong, but when someone spouts such vitriol I wonder - do you think I have no feelings? What makes you feel justified in being so nasty?

shewept · 18/04/2015 17:03

Of course it makes it less valid. I consider myself a feminist. Therefore saying something is anti feminist is an attempt to make the choice less valid. It implies that the person only thinks they are making their own choice, but they aren't really.

Tbh this conversation is ridiculous. And this is my problem with the feminism boards here. Unless you make the choice that is their choice you are anti feminist. Which means you have no choice.

I have this conversation enough in rl. Women who think mothers SHOULD work, women who thinks mothers MUST be sahms. Without realising that women have fought to get these choices. And that's what they should be choices. Imposing your choices on someone else and telling them their choice is not correct, is entirely wrong.

Hakluyt · 18/04/2015 17:05

"feminist for me it a word I hate! It has so many negative connotations mainly due to left winged opinionated brawler butch women (in my experience anyway). That I just can't be arsed expressing my view on a matter that we both agree on but yet I come away wanting to have a bath! hmm"

Isn't it awful how people are so insulted, and belittled and shouted down on FWR threads. Only radical feminists ever get to express an opinion..............

cailindana · 18/04/2015 17:05

I don't consider your choice less valid. I am a feminist who doesn't agree with Hak's viewpoint on anti-feminist choices. So this is a debate that you are engaged in. I don't see why it's ridiculous.

OrlandoWoolf · 18/04/2015 17:05

do you think I have no feelings? What makes you feel justified in being so nasty

I could say exactly the same thing about some of the posters on FWR who forget that there are real people posting and they can say things that really hurt.

cailindana · 18/04/2015 17:07

I for one have never insulted any genuine poster on the feminist boards and I have very rarely seen any non-troll insults genuine posters. The few times I have seen someone get shirty with a poster who was genuinely trying to engage, I've called them up on it. Yet, there is a whole thread here saying I am part of this group of bullies, who then turn around and insult me when I have engaged entirely with everything they have said. It's all arse about face and I don't understand it.

SandorClegane · 18/04/2015 17:07

Choices don't occur in a cultural vacuum though, what I've witnessed happening on FWR is people engaging critically with the context in which choices are made. Removing body hair occurs within the cultural context that cailin has already described.

I've never witnessed anyone on FWR being as derogatory about those they don't agree with as Altinkum however.

Mehitabel6 · 18/04/2015 17:08

I don't like to be told that I should know why I do things so that I can make informed choices. I know perfectly well why I do things and my choice was informed - I just don't happen to have used the information in the way that some people think I should.
A good example is changing your name on marriage. Apparently women change their name because they are so thick they think they have to -and if only it was explained by the educated women they wouldn't change them.
They can't comprehend that you had exactly the same information and made an informed choice that suits you!

OrlandoWoolf · 18/04/2015 17:08

Well good for you.

NAFALT. Does that help?

shewept · 18/04/2015 17:09

Nastiness from any point of view is not justifiable, in my opinion.

But that's the point. I have been subjected on more than one occasions of being anti feminist (in aibu not the feminist boards) by several of the posters here. There are plenty of things I shouldn't have chosen to do. Apparently as since a have a vagina I have to consider feminism before I make any decision about my body. Particularly the hair on said vagina.

I think that's as nasty as calling someone butch.

SomewhereIBelong · 18/04/2015 17:09

OP asked why so few post -

I feel it is cliquey where posters who question feminist issues get treated with condescension, and are harried in a PA and irritating manner.

I was told once that I did not understand feminist issues at all - despite once having been on a union team that won equal pay for women in the civil service in the 90s. That bugged the hell out of me, so I have not posted on there since - a silent protest, that nobody cares about but me.

OrlandoWoolf · 18/04/2015 17:10

It's quite ironic when someone complains and states that they are not part of a group who does something.

A bit like when men complain and say they are not part of a group. NAMALT.

SandorClegane · 18/04/2015 17:10

I've never witnessed anyone on FWR suggesting that women change their names on marriage due to stupidity or not realising they don't have to. Is that a thing that actually happened?

cailindana · 18/04/2015 17:11

"Apparently women change their name because they are so thick they think they have to -and if only it was explained by the educated women they wouldn't change them"

Again, that is not a feminist viewpoint I have ever seen. If the whole feminist movement thought women were thick I doubt they'd have fought so hard to get them the vote or to get them higher up in the world of work. The feminist discussion around name changing is about what that means for women in terms of their identity and why it is expected that the woman will change her name but not the man.

I changed my name on marriage. I understand the cultural context around name changing and I did it anyway. If someone, feminist or otherwise told me I was thick for doing that, I'd tell them to fuck off.

SirChenjin · 18/04/2015 17:11

Imposing your choices on someone else and telling them their choice is not correct, is entirely wrong

And that's the nub of it, afaic. What I find frustrating about the Feminist boards is that (it appears) there are certain beliefs that feminists are 'allowed', and anything outside of that is anti-feminist. It again appears that feminism is not a matter of personal choice, but something which is done for the 'greater good' - and that must be dictated by a collective feminist ideology.

It's all very intense - personally, I just prefer to get on with life.

Mehitabel6 · 18/04/2015 17:12

Well said shewept - I have been told many a time that 'feminism is about more than choice* -when to me it is all about choice.

shewept · 18/04/2015 17:12

sandor my saving takes part in a vacuum. I do it privately and the only person that knows is my dh. I can imagine even my dd knows as she doesn't see me naked. Nor does anyone at the gym. Grin

My choice to shave my bits does not effect anyone else. Nor do I recommend or advise other women that they should shave their bits.

Just realised people on mn know far more about my bits than they probably should Grin

SandorClegane · 18/04/2015 17:13

How awful that people might consider contributing to the greater good above their own personal choices. The monsters.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 18/04/2015 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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