To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

Oh yes, why not start a thread about why some of us never go on the Style & Beauty threads, and the prayer threads too. What a nice opportunity to slag off enthusiastic regulars.

Cross post*.

hag, I take your point people might feel battered.

I do sometimes see debates go nastily, and sometimes I lose my temper and wish I had been nicer and more patient, so it's not that I'm saying we're all angelic and kitten-like.

But, the feeling battered thing goes both ways, so what's the solution?

I think there are a lot of strong, feminist opinions all over MN on different issues from a huge number of posters. Many of whom may never have been on the FWR boards. That's a success in my book.
So much is mainstream thinking now that was only an ideal in the 70s.

outself

I've lurked on FWR for quite a long time as I feel, as a man, that I should understand the issues that woman face. TBH I'd never post on there as it has already been intimated (although not recently) that men are unwelcome. That's fair enough as it's a female space so doesn't bother me as I can still read.

Anyway, as a neutral, I have experienced a lot of shouting down of women who hold different views. Some have even been accused of being male posters posing as women as they simply could not hold such views. I've not visited recently but I recall a thread about a London Dove event where a woman really enjoyed swimming in a glass pool as it empowered her. She was ganged up on, reduced to tears and she was told she was deluded for even attending. I understand there's not much love for Dove here but it was saddening to read.

I've seen many instances of people being ridiculed, ganged up on etc. I don't believe it's a figment of the imagination of the many women who have posted on this thread.

Yes, I think that's something really special about MN.

I have felt dismissed and patronised, but that's how debates go sometimes

Unlike AIBU where this also happens, you tend to have a lot of people who have similar ideologies about feminism so if your ideology is a bit different, you can feel outnumbered. It takes someone with a thick skin to stay on a forum where your feminist ideology is different to the dominant view.

You can't stop people having their own feminist ideology. But you should be able to see that people who have different feminist viewpoints can find it difficult posting on a forum where people have different feminist viewpoints.

Heh.

Oddly enough, what I think is special is the mainstream feminism on MN, not the post by the psychic bloke who thinks he can tell when women are shouting from the quality of their posts on an internet forum.

"I have often noticed that there are many posters who claim they avoid FWR. Yet they seem mysteriously familiar with it, almost as if they're not being entirely honest about the avoiding ...."

some of us look sometimes, or even dip our toes in, get the same-old, same-old responses and go away again.

" It's a bit peculiar but it must work for them."
another somewhat condescending post.

Well, yes, orlando, I do see it's difficult. So what, though?

It happens all over the shop.

I find it difficult posting in bits of MN because I don't have kids. I don't assume MN should change for me, nor that people should waste their time anxiously checking whether I'm ok with their debate.

hak i dont think there is a pink frilly gene if there is it bypassed me but i do think some girls like pretty frilly things i dont think its buying into a sterotype at all I brought up 2 girls in the 90 they were npt bombarded withgirls toys they wore practical non fussy clothes through toddler hood 1 girl liked cars and dinasaurs the other girl liked dolls and prams and sparkles i dont see why 2 children allowed to develop can be sterotyped

There isn't a solution, Jeanne.
But every time I read Buffy's posts or when I used to read Stewie's stuff, I see them as transtalors and interpreters that more people can engage with and understand without feeling attacked. At one point Buffy namechanged to 'BuffyTheReasonableFeminist' because people said that about her.
Buffy and others (Lenin for example) are both able to hold their own on the boards to a very high level of debate and also to talk to the masses.
It's not an either/or. Just that some people are better at communicating with a wider audience and some are better at communicating with their peers with whom they share ideals and beliefs in common. It's what makes me a teacher and DH an academic.
But that's just my opinion, not fact or generalising.

I do see it's difficult. So what, though

Because feminism is important. And it should be open to all - especially on MN. If people don't feel comfortable or able to discuss feminism on MN, that must be an issue.

hag - YY, I miss stewie.

Buffy is an academic, though.

Mrsjayy, I agree. It's not a good thing to deprive your children of choices, but I thought it was important to show them what coices were available to them and encourage them to make up their own minds.
DD in a frilly princess dress, with sword and wellies comes to mind. DS draped in costume jewellery and silks. Both adults and confident in themselves and their choices now.

If people don't feel comfortable or able to discuss feminism on MN, that must be an issue.

See, I really, strongly disagree with that.

Yes, comfort is important, but it's not actually the most important thing. Feminism should be uncomfortable - at least some of the time. If it's not, it's not doing its job.

'Buffy is an academic, though.'

Yes, ( I remember the PhD thread) and she's a fantastic teacher too.
DH is an ivory tower type of academic and struggles with explaining things to people who have different opinions of their own, especially if they conflict with his.

somewhere - TBH, I was going for rude rather than condescending, because I felt that poster had been quite rude herself.

She's claiming only a handful of people post on FWR, but she and others making this claim clearly lurk or post there, as they seem to know much more about it than I do (and I'd say I'm a regular).

I think it's really off to do that.

See, I really, strongly disagree with that

Comfortable means they can say what they think without being "shouted down" by a mass of people who disagree with you.

hag - she's just all round fantastic.

I just picked up on the 'academic' thing because I think there's a tendency to see FWR as 'too academic' or 'too theoretical', and it can be quite, well, battering.

Comfortable means they can say what they think without being "shouted down" by a mass of people who disagree with you.

No, I disagree, that's not what comfortable means. Not nit picking, I think it matters.

You seem to think it's somehow morally wrong for people to hold the same opinions as each other - as if, if you disagree with someone, everyone else should politely hold off the debate so that you can engage one on one. Is that right?

Because on some threads, I could see that being a good approach. But as a general rule, it's just asking people to lie about what they believe, isn't it?

I was hoping that you weren't going to come on and do the 'girly thing' of being modest and dismissive of what you do on MN.
Rather than the 'manly' thing of 'Ah yes, watch and admire, because I'm fabulous'
Yet again, you got the response right.

But as a general rule, it's just asking people to lie about what they believe, isn't it

There's ways of disagreeing with people. If people on here say they feel bullied off, ganged up on, shouted down and there's a clique, maybe there is?