SIL (again)

[iamsoannoyed]

More of a vent than an AIBU.

Some of you may remember my previous posts re SIL/BIL and the farm situation (now resolved in one sense).

SIL and BIL (mainly SIL, I think) are still causing headaches. It's very frustrating. For back story, SIL/BIL have 6 children, SIL has a progress illness which causes her to have significant mobility problems and fatigue. We bought them out of BIL share of the farm, as BIL not able to do much of the work on the farm as he was caring for SIL. He refused to consider other options (paying someone to be SIL carer or someone to work on the farm etc). The brothers had taken it over jointly- PIL are still alive and well, just retired. Well, FIL is technically retired- he doesn't seem to understand what that means though! Quite a lot of bad feeling caused by the whole situation, and SIL/BIL feel that DH is the favoured child. Their demands on others became quite unreasonable, so we have put firm boundaries in place as to what and when we will do things. Happy to help out in an emergency though.

Since this the demands are becoming more outrageous. They seem to have interpreted "we'll help in an emergency" as "if we don't bother to sort anything out, then when it needs done imminently we can call it an emergency".

It's driving me bonkers. I have actually refused to do things, which I know has caused them inconvenience- but I feel that they are well and truly taking the p*! i don't mind doing things that don't cause too much inconvenience- such as picking something up/one of their DC from an activity if I am going that way anyway, or on the odd occasion if I have nothing planned. But I draw the line at taking time off work (seriously, SIL has asked me to do this) or cancelling DC activities to facilitate their demands.

Lately a few things have caused major tantrums and they've put PIL in the middle of it all again, which really annoys me-. What DH and I or do not do for BIL/SIl is absolutely nothing do with, nor the responsibility of, my lovely PIL. PIL do quite a lot for them, but I think they have also pulled back a but so they have more time for themselves.

DH and I are taking the children away to the christmas market in Nuremberg just before christmas, we are really excited (it's a surprise for them) and looking forward to spending time as a family. Cover for farm sorted and it'll be the first time we've all got away together for a while. SIL
upset as her children "don't get to go anywhere" and then said "it would have been nice if you'd consulted us first- then we could have arranged for out DC to go with you". I was gob-smacked! Got quite cross and said something along the lines of "we don't consult anyone before planning a family holiday, and I wouldn't be taking all your DC as it would not be a relaxing time". She got offended as apparently I had said her children were unpleasant to be around. I didn't, but taking 8 children (our 2, plus their 6) is not my idea of a fun holiday. I didn't have a large family for a reason!

Next thing is that she has decided 2 of her DDs should have ponies. My DDs both have ponies and I have my own horse. SIL clearly can't help with the care of a pony, and BIL doesn't like them (and has said he doesn't want to do all the "dirty work" of a pony).

I said that I was happy for them to use our field and there are spare stables- for cost of hay etc, but I wasn't going to be looking after their ponies or taking responsibility for shoeing/worming/innoculations/vets visits etc, nor would I be arranging lessons/supervising riding on a daily basis. I felt ground rules needed to be set, or I'd be expected to be the responsible person for their ponies.

I take DD's to pony club and said I wouldn't be responsible for taking their DD's on a regular basis either (and couldn't as no room in the horse box). SIL helpfully suggested I could buy a horse lorry which could carry 4 ponies! I declined to spend our money on that.

SIL/BIL said they think they'd need me to "help a bit more, as they have no experience and won't always be able to do "all they'd like too due to SIL's ill-health". I suggested they considered finding somewhere that did full livery, in that case- they said they can't afford it. SIL then said that I am "preventing her children from having ponies and that's not fair as your DDs get to have all the fun".

MIL has asked me to reconsider, as the girls are very disappointed (I'm irritated SIL told them of the plan before actually asking me). I admit, it wouldn't be too much more effort to bring in/put out ponies. I could supervise the mucking out and some of the riding, without it being too onerous. Still couldn't do the pony club stuff though. I just get the feeling that I would then be left with the entire responsibility for everything, and SIL would not make her DD's do anything if they decided not to (I'm not suggesting her DDs would, merely that I would end up, by default, caring for these ponies if they didn't). And I'm not up for that. At the same time, MIL doesn't ask for much and I don't want to leave 2 little girls very disappointed. I've said I'll think about it. DH says we could "give it a try".

AIBU to say no, when I could do it without too much effort?

iamso

I've read through your previous threads, and I can see you have been stretched to the nth degree here.
The situation with the PIL taking your DC away when you were on a Conference and your DH at the farm.
The driving your DNs about often at short notice and no matter what you do, it doesn't seem good enough.

But the ponies- I think - IMO- that it's your SIL way of keeping you under the thumb if you like.
You would want your DN to look after their own ponies. But if you dare to say "Look I can't look after 5 equines" they'll expect you to rally round to theirs and pick them up.

It sounds like you are trying to release the grip that she has on you. And it sounds like SIL doesn't want this, so she's upping the ante.

TBH , I wouldn't even bother with the Livery suggestion. It'll get to the stage where they won't be able to pay (Livery is eye wateringly ££) and why should we pay when 'Auntie I Am' has empty fields and stables.

Ah, OK! Think I'll get my post removed anyhoo as it looks stalky. As you were...

I'd ask your PIL why they think its reasonable that YOU should be looking after ponies when your BIL who would basically be the ponies owner wont.
It would be like me saying I want a dog but I think my family should feed it, take it to the vet, walk and exercise it, get a dog cage in the car for it, have it live with them, whilst I occasionally ruffle its ears.

Other things to consider saying get a horse lorry is all very well but unless it was under a certain weight you would need a different driving license. Courses for learning for Cat C can come in around £1000 or more
Then there's the insurance...

Tbh I wouldn't even do it if the BIL was happy to be involved, unless he's pretty horsey too.

Non horsey/inexperienced people can be a pita, however keen.

Pony doesn't fancy coming in...pony won't have his feet picked out....pony keeps snatching at grass when I'm trying to lead him...I can't get the saddle on...I can't get the bridle on...

And a million and one other little things you'll end up helping with...

True Calamity - even though BIL is a farmer (though now not involved) sometimes a non-horse person can be a liability rather than a helpful pair of hands. And if he's there under sufferance?

How long would it be till SIL decides/finds she cannot cope while her husband is out with the ponies?

Cousins in families all live different lifestyles. We are not well off and our son is not going to grow up with a lifestyle of Baby Gap, Waitrose food, Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister, Centre Parks and IPads. Some of their cousins will have that sort of lifestyle, some of them won't.

But it's not the responsibility of my siblings or in laws to rectify that gap. It's just a fact of life.

Sorry if I'm missed something I only skim read, but would it be possible for her children to occasionally use your children's ponies rather than buying their own?

The only people who need to feel guilty here are your BIL and SIL. If they feel that they cannot take on the responsibility of owning two ponies then they need to communicate that decision to their DDs. It has nothing whatsoever to do with you.

I have two DC. The eldest has just started asking about getting a cat or dog. I've explained that I'm allergic to animals with fur and that they are a responsibility that I'm not prepared to accept (in 4yo language :) ). End of. I haven't asked my cat-owning neighbor to get another cat for my DC to play with now and again, or asked to share their cat, or told DS that he can't have a cat because my neighbor said no. Doing so would be rude and ridiculous.

Aermingers, I think the OP's children are very small and their ponies are teeny; the cousins are too big for them.

aermingers the OPs daughters ponies are too small for the nieces.

I'm still at the it would have been nice if you'd consulted us first then we could have arranged for our DC to go with you

Though, bear in mind iamso it's still nine weeks or so, They might just be able to "arrange" it

Good point, 70! OP, I think it's time to tell them that you are going somewhere really unpleasant. Say, a week's worth of Russian saltmines, with dental appointments thrown in?

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the suggestion that the BIL is lazy or selfish. Possibly he's unrealistic about ponies, unreasonable about the farm business and/or so wrapped up in his wife's needs that putting anyone else to trouble seems minor in comparison, but if he is doing all her day to day care, he isn't just sitting idle.

Let's put it another way.

My ds longs for a dog. It would be good for him too. He'd do the care as best a 7yo could, and doing things like obedience classes and the care for a dog would really help him grow up.
I do feel guilty about sayiing no to him. But we have several issues with a dog.

1. Dd1 would move out if we got a dog as she is terrified. That's often the reason I give.
2. Neither me or dh are dog people and haven't a clue. I don't think it would be fair to get a dog in that situation.
3. The absolutely biggest reason for me is that I really can't be bothered with the day to day care. I've seen how much time a dog takes up, and the expense and I really don't want to commit to say around 15 years of having to arrange holidays round a dog, having to walk it 1-2 times a day, groom it, pick up the poo, deal with it when it's ill. Three children are enough!

So what your SIL is saying is that she is in position 3 (or rather her dh is). And they want you to do all the things he can't be bothered with. Would it be reasonable for me to ask dsis (who already has 2 dogs) to have one for us? Ds could go round and do all the fun things with the dog at no effort from the rest of us.
No it wouldn't! And adding a third dog, I would imagine, is much less effort than doubling the number of ponies you have.

And surely if your bil was bought up on a farm and indeeed, from previous thread, had intentions until her illness, of being a partner, then he must have been prepared to do such dirty work? Or did he always tend to skulk out of the dirty work?

I have read your other threads.
In a sense, the ponies are a red herring. The problem is that BIL and SIL are inviting pity rather than taking responsibility and more importantly, the problem is the underlying resentment that your BIL and SIL feel towards the rest of the family and especially your DH. I think they feel like the victims and see him as the wrong-doer.

When that happens people tend to feel, consciously or not, that they are justified in being demanding or unfair because they are redressing the balance in some way. You and your DH are probably supposed to be always on the back foot and making up to BIL and SIL for being bastards over the farm. Everything they ask is a test to see if you will see the light and do as they ask or are still being unreasonable.

That's why I think you should refuse to have anything to do with ponies for your nieces. I think it is inevitable that the situation will degenerate into you doing everything and having more demands placed on you. What happens if there are vet fees they can't afford, for example?

It would be a lot for you to commit to even if things were fine, but in the present climate of recriminations etc it is likely to cause trouble.

Agree Abbie.

OP I've just read your August thread - missed it before as I was away then

So if I've got this right, in the early summer they threw a strop over the farm arrangements - over the school holidays I imagine they enjoyed a lot of child care from your PILs (?) while at home - in August they expected the family to change their break because they'd "forgotten" to make arrangements for their kids - and now they're stropping again because they expect you to manage ponies for the kids, consult them about your own family break and also take all six of them away with you???

The many other posters are right - this whole thing has gone vastly too far and the word you need is NO

I just want to add another voice to the throng of No!

I would also urge you to think about your boundary of helping when it suits or a genuine emergency. This thing is, if it is a genuine emergency, it WILL suit you to help because you are a kind normal person. So don't think too much about what constitutes a genuine emergency... You will know it when you see it, just trust your gut.

Definitely just say no. If they want ponies for their kids then they need to facilitate that. Most children don't have ponies. Don't try to suggest alternatives, don't get dragged in.

[shocked] at the holiday thing

Just to say I wouldn't have any sort of Family Conference, just helps reinforce their attitude of entitlement, as in their DC responsibilities are also yours and PsIL.

You know that you are always there when needed. if you want to also do other nice things with you're DNs then great. Lovely for you all. Not an obligation though.

Another here saying YANBU although I think, at heart, you know that, and I think you have dealt with all of this in a very fair and even handed manner.
I think Abbie has summarised, in particular, what I was thinking. They feel, at some level, that you and possibly even more so, your DH, owe them, and are deluding even themselves, while seeing how far they can push on that.
The bit about the holidays would have finished me. I remember your previous threads.
Don't get involved. Seriously.

I've read your previous threads and you, your DH and PIL have dealt with the situation as best as anyone could.

BIL and SIL made different choices to you, long before she was ill. They chose to have six kids, you stopped at two. She gave up work, you kept working (as a doctor iirc?). Assuming the two brothers were earning the same from the farm, there was always going to be a disparity in the lifestyle each arm of the family could afford. The fact of the matter is, your SIL is using her illness to manipulate the rest of the family into doing what she wants. Of course she feels guilty looking at the difference in the 'treats' her DC get to your DD's but that was always going to happen and it's not purely down to her illness, however tragic their current circumstances are.

Your role as a family member, as I'd see it, is providing emergency or respite care, the odd low key treat for the kids (cinema or trip into town). This doesn't extend to caring for livestock because BIL doesn't have the inclination to do so.

I'm glad you feel more certain iamsoannoyed, it's the right choice.

Without any wish to treat your life as a soap opera please could you let us know how it goes as you toughen up on SIL & BIL? Good luck!

No advice that's not already been posted OP
Just wanted to say - have a great time in Nurnburg! I went last year for the xmas markets with dc and it is indeed magical.

(And i hope the SIL/BIL don't manage to book their 6 children to go with you! )

From memeory I think BIL & SIL chose to have the last couple of dc after her diagnosis!!

I think you need to do a lot more laughing out loud at them every time they make an outrageous demand. "How hysterical you think I've the time to look after 5 horses!"

You and dh need to have incredibly firm boundaries with them and perhaps need to remind PIL that SIL & BIL made their choices and to some extent they do need live with those consequences ie. the financial ones for certain, also in larger families dc do need to help more - it's just the way it is! If their parents were both out of the house working then surely the children would be expected to help, why is it any different because one is ill and one is her carer?

Haven't they got enough responsibilities that they can't cope with? I've only got two children, but still find it hard to manage them and a house and a house renovation and various other projects I've got on. Forget the garden.

I'm still always looking for shortcuts and clever ways to make life easier and make necessary tasks take less time, or be done at the same time as something else. If I were ill, I'd be using my disability discounts for all Iwas worth, and would be buying in housework and cooking (and laundry, o joy), and trying to find ways to let the children have a life without its getting too complicated.

There are loads of things I'd like to do, but know it would take time from something else. Hosting a coffee morning. Having a Hallowe'en party. Having friends to stay. I'm not agreeing to do any of those things for the near future, because something else would suffer. Probably lots of other responsibilities would suffer. When we had some of DH's extended family staying this summer, our DC and my projects suffered. DD is off ill this morning from preschool = no work at home for me. Too many things cutting into my work-time? No exercise classes for me that week as I try to make up the time.

With regard to your BIL/SIL's situation, the horse lessons are the easy option, for giving them fun, exercise and experience, but not adding expense and loads of time-consuming responsibility which thefamily can't facilitate. Aren't they at school? Is one of them likely to go into higher education - whether away or locally - within the lifetime of a horse?

I admit I'm speaking as a non-animal person, but I really, really can't see the upside to having such enormous "pets" , when they can enjoy the enjoyable bits of horses, at less expense.

Nothing to add except another HELL TO THE NIZZY NO

Totally just said HELL TO THE NIZZY NO in my head. It's ace.
So yeah...that.