SIL (again)

[iamsoannoyed]

More of a vent than an AIBU.

Some of you may remember my previous posts re SIL/BIL and the farm situation (now resolved in one sense).

SIL and BIL (mainly SIL, I think) are still causing headaches. It's very frustrating. For back story, SIL/BIL have 6 children, SIL has a progress illness which causes her to have significant mobility problems and fatigue. We bought them out of BIL share of the farm, as BIL not able to do much of the work on the farm as he was caring for SIL. He refused to consider other options (paying someone to be SIL carer or someone to work on the farm etc). The brothers had taken it over jointly- PIL are still alive and well, just retired. Well, FIL is technically retired- he doesn't seem to understand what that means though! Quite a lot of bad feeling caused by the whole situation, and SIL/BIL feel that DH is the favoured child. Their demands on others became quite unreasonable, so we have put firm boundaries in place as to what and when we will do things. Happy to help out in an emergency though.

Since this the demands are becoming more outrageous. They seem to have interpreted "we'll help in an emergency" as "if we don't bother to sort anything out, then when it needs done imminently we can call it an emergency".

It's driving me bonkers. I have actually refused to do things, which I know has caused them inconvenience- but I feel that they are well and truly taking the p*! i don't mind doing things that don't cause too much inconvenience- such as picking something up/one of their DC from an activity if I am going that way anyway, or on the odd occasion if I have nothing planned. But I draw the line at taking time off work (seriously, SIL has asked me to do this) or cancelling DC activities to facilitate their demands.

Lately a few things have caused major tantrums and they've put PIL in the middle of it all again, which really annoys me-. What DH and I or do not do for BIL/SIl is absolutely nothing do with, nor the responsibility of, my lovely PIL. PIL do quite a lot for them, but I think they have also pulled back a but so they have more time for themselves.

DH and I are taking the children away to the christmas market in Nuremberg just before christmas, we are really excited (it's a surprise for them) and looking forward to spending time as a family. Cover for farm sorted and it'll be the first time we've all got away together for a while. SIL
upset as her children "don't get to go anywhere" and then said "it would have been nice if you'd consulted us first- then we could have arranged for out DC to go with you". I was gob-smacked! Got quite cross and said something along the lines of "we don't consult anyone before planning a family holiday, and I wouldn't be taking all your DC as it would not be a relaxing time". She got offended as apparently I had said her children were unpleasant to be around. I didn't, but taking 8 children (our 2, plus their 6) is not my idea of a fun holiday. I didn't have a large family for a reason!

Next thing is that she has decided 2 of her DDs should have ponies. My DDs both have ponies and I have my own horse. SIL clearly can't help with the care of a pony, and BIL doesn't like them (and has said he doesn't want to do all the "dirty work" of a pony).

I said that I was happy for them to use our field and there are spare stables- for cost of hay etc, but I wasn't going to be looking after their ponies or taking responsibility for shoeing/worming/innoculations/vets visits etc, nor would I be arranging lessons/supervising riding on a daily basis. I felt ground rules needed to be set, or I'd be expected to be the responsible person for their ponies.

I take DD's to pony club and said I wouldn't be responsible for taking their DD's on a regular basis either (and couldn't as no room in the horse box). SIL helpfully suggested I could buy a horse lorry which could carry 4 ponies! I declined to spend our money on that.

SIL/BIL said they think they'd need me to "help a bit more, as they have no experience and won't always be able to do "all they'd like too due to SIL's ill-health". I suggested they considered finding somewhere that did full livery, in that case- they said they can't afford it. SIL then said that I am "preventing her children from having ponies and that's not fair as your DDs get to have all the fun".

MIL has asked me to reconsider, as the girls are very disappointed (I'm irritated SIL told them of the plan before actually asking me). I admit, it wouldn't be too much more effort to bring in/put out ponies. I could supervise the mucking out and some of the riding, without it being too onerous. Still couldn't do the pony club stuff though. I just get the feeling that I would then be left with the entire responsibility for everything, and SIL would not make her DD's do anything if they decided not to (I'm not suggesting her DDs would, merely that I would end up, by default, caring for these ponies if they didn't). And I'm not up for that. At the same time, MIL doesn't ask for much and I don't want to leave 2 little girls very disappointed. I've said I'll think about it. DH says we could "give it a try".

AIBU to say no, when I could do it without too much effort?

Ridiculous. Keep strong. Keep saying no.

so glad that dh is on board with this.

that you needed to ask and you needed to see a thread from strangers means that they are wearing away at your perceptions of normality.

glad you laughed at the holiday idea.

Yanbu. I don't mean to sound like a heartless cow, but they are the ones who had 6 children and it is awful that your sil has a progressive illness, however it is neither your fault nor problem that her children 'miss out' on things - you shouldn't have to substitute your family time for making up for theirs. As for the ponies, please please say no. You will end up looking after them!

Asking MIL to step in when BIL can't be arsed is unable to deal with these prospective ponies is not going to work either. Because there will be many inevitable times when she is unable to deal with them either, and you will end up doing it because you like your mil and want to help her out.

I think you need to say to PIL "Do you think I should give up work to look after DNs for free???" perhaps that will make a very valid point as to the ridiculousness of the situation.

They have so many other options still available to them, an au pair FGS but oh no they can lay it on thick with the relatives and get everything done for free. Their older dc could do an awful lot more to help too, I certainly expect all my dc to pull their weight in our family. DH has very bad flare ups of arthritis and when he does, guess what they have to help out more!

HOnestly their attitude make me

I can't believe that the expectation is that you will take care of their kids. I assume that if you had agreed to take them to Germany sil and Bil would have paid for them.

Re the ponies completely agree find a lease one with full livery. Or maybe speak to dc's and let dn's look after theirs for a few weeks. Make them do everything so they know how it'll be if they did get their own. But maybe choose a week where the weather is awful. And make them get up super early....

Yanbu, of course.

I have a suggestion
What about you getting 2 extra ponies .
These your DNs could use and help take care of in return they get to ride them.
And if you they are good enough you might do the pony club stuff with them

This way the ponies are yours.
Yes you have to pay for them but you can also get rid if them if does not work .

The ponies would also be there for you two rude when they get big enough.
And the other children of famliy could help out if they were interested.

How about you just say no, OP.

BIL can but ponies/horses for his own daughters & look after them with them!

I would be a bit torn re the ponies but not the holiday.
My dh had MS and the impact on family life was huge. It is a soul destroying illness and can have a mental as well as a physical impact on the sufferere. My dh used to get so angry and frustrated. Early in his illness we decided to get ponies as something for the dc to focus on (they had been having lessons for a few years). I used a local livery stable until I felt the dc were old enough to do it themselves. They were 7 and 11 when we got the ponies and 9 and 13 when we moved to diy.
If I had had a relative in your situation I would have asked for help. I would have been upset and humiliated to be refused but if you won't you won't. You have land, empty stables and expertise couldn't you just supervise dn's while your own dd's are riding?
I agree about the transport, it is up to bil to pay if he wants you to upgrade and the girls must do all mucking out, grooming etc. it wouldn't hurt you to turn out etc. it would show generosity of spirit and mean the world to two little girls who must be having a pretty bleak time. Their mum probably wont be around to see them grow up (mine were 12 and 16 when dh died) and she is trying to make something lovely happen for her dd's.
She cannot intrude on your holiday but the ponies could happen, if you made it.

greylady. I'm very sorry to hear about your DH. MS is truly horrible.

I am sure in normal circumstances everyone would want to go out of their way to help but due to the back story involved this situation is different. The OPs BIL can't be 'bothered' to help out with any ponies but wants his SIL to do it for him. This is crossing the line between being helpful and being exploited.

greylady I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles. Your post was very moving there. I wish you and your daughters very well indeed.
On the face of it, I think you present a good case for the OP acquiescing to the ponies, but there is still the loose end of the bil to tie up. What role does he play in all of this good sense and kindness regarding the pony arrangement? So far as I can see, he's offering up zero, and will continue to contribute such. He doesn't want the dirty work, as he says himself.
I just can't reconcile that, along with OP's bil and sil history of making unreasonable demands.

I think if the bil was willing tp pitch in and make it happen for his daughters, the OP would be more open to overseeing it all. I don't think she has a problem with lending out the stable space and paddocking as it is freely available, but she knows that she is in real danger of being lumped with the whole gig. She's not agreeable to that, and I think that's ok.

I agree Ask that it is crossing into exploitative. It's the sort of thing that ought to be offered than requested...iyswim?
And bear in mind too, that there are six children to provide something lovely for...not just these two. There's no way the expectations are going to end there.
I can see the good in agreeing to it for sure, but being a former soft touch who had to learn the hard way, the little voice telling me that I was being thoroughly played, would not be quietened.

Greylady

You do have a point, I realise things are hard for them and they are lovely girls. I'd love them to have the fun I had with my ponies when they were little. Which is why I do feel a bit guilty about it.

But, and it's a big but, I am fairly certain (judging on from past experience) that I will be left to arrange everything- from shoeing to inoculations, to vets visits if they aren't well and even the general looking after. If it were just a case of turning them out in the morning/bringing them in at night, and supervising the riding sometimes, then I'd do it quite happily.

Which is what I said when SIL asked- I will happily let you have a field/couple of stables and put in/out- but I am not supervising everything- i.e. the day to day caring and welfare of these ponies and all the rest that goes with it.

BIL would not guarantee to supervise his children and ensure stables mucked out, farrier visits arranged and someone there to bring ponies in etc. I don't have the time to look after 4 ponies and 4 children all the time- I work FT. BIL needs to facilitate the things he and SIL want their children to have- like you did, from the sounds of it.

Ask and Pictish are absolutely right - it's the back story which makes this one different, and the BIL's obvious reluctance to do enough to help his family

Suggestions about the ponies "not being too much trouble" are all very well, and I get the kindness behind the suggestions, but for me it's the precedent this would set which would be the problem. Given the almost unhinged expectations over the holiday, it's only too clear what any weakening on OP and her DH's part would lead to ...

Greylady There is significant back story here which if you don't know makes the Op seem a lot less sympathetic than she actually is.

If I remember correct:-
Dh and BIL owned a farm together
BIL stopped coming to work due to SIL illness
Dh picked up the slack for many months working 100+ hour weeks
BIL continued to not work, insisted on drawing full wage, refused any suggestions of outside help for SIL, refused any suggestions of outside help on farm
Dh got ill due to exhaustion, BIL still unwilling to compromise
Op and dh forced sale of farm

The back story makes all the difference.

If the children's father felt it would be beneficial to his DCs to have ponies he could arrange it fairly easily. He is choosing not to.

This is not the SIL's responsibility. She is clearly doing lots to lighten the load for the family and cares deeply for the children but taking on two ponies for someone else's DCs is a big commitment of time and money.

For a start, if one of the ponies became ill and needed time consuming care, the OP would be left to do it, you can be sure.

It is hard on children when a parent is ill but that is not a good reason to expect this sort of commitment from another family member, especially when their own father is choosing not to bother.

The OP will always be the one who has to draw the line and the SIL and BIL will always be trying to push it back.l

I have read some of your threads before and I think the backstory of outrageous requests means that you have to say no. And, as someone upthread said, don't make suggestions about how to solve this problem. BIL and SIL will see that as you offering to sort it out.

If you say yes to this request, you will indeed end up being responsible for the welfare of the ponies and the girls while they are riding.

BUT that will not be the end of the matter.

What will you then do when SIL says she wants her daughters competing at shows the length and breadth of the country every weekend and that it is up to you to take her? Or that this pony is no longer good enough and you need to sort a new one out for her?

You have to say no because whatever you do to help, it will never be enough for them.

YANBU. Thin end of the wedge and all that.

Every time I read one of your threads I get angrier and angrier at them!

yes, fuzzpig- try living nearby!

I don't know why I feel guilty- I'm not normally a pushover in other aspects of my life.

I think it was all so gradual, we just got into the way of doing things- probably started as we felt really sorry for the difficulties SIL's illness was causing.

The more I read I just think your BIL and SIL are so wrapped up with SIL MS, that they are neglecting their children. I worry in a few years when the children are older it is all going to blow up in their faces, as the children feeling come to the surface.

I am fairly certain (judging on from past experience) that I will be left to arrange everything

You're quite right ... that's exactly what would happen. And your BIL won't guarantee his kids helping?? Well, well, what a surprise

If any of my nieces or nephews need something, then we are there. No problem.

Nobody needs ponies.

Of course you feel bad for them, being a disabled parent is horrible. I hate that my DCs miss out on stuff because of my illness. But there's a huge difference between asking for help when you really need it, and expecting others to interrupt their own lives to facilitate luxuries.