Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to not know what to do about Santa

333 replies

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 15/10/2014 13:27

DH suggested I ask you lovely ladies for advice Grin. And yes, I know it's not even Halloween yet...

I have a DD, who is two. We are coming up to her first Christmas where she might have a vague idea of what is going on and could understand a little about the various customs. I'm not religious, so Christmas for me is just a mid-winter feast/party/bit of time off work that I can spend with my DH/DD. The problem I have is what to do about St Nick. I can't decide if I should tell her he is real (and have to disabuse her later/risk having her spot that mummy lied) or perhaps take a different approach (in which case what approach?).

In part, I wonder if Terry Pratchett has it right and you have to tell children the small lies (tooth fairy, Santa) in order that they can later wrap their minds around the big 'lies' we use in society in order to be society (truth, justice,...). On the other hand, it just feels really wrong to me.

OP posts:
skylark2 · 15/10/2014 17:07

DD only admitted to knowing Santa didn't exist after we had had a hypothetical discussion about when the hypothetical point would come that Santa would no longer come to her because she was too old.

Santa still comes to her and she's 18. When we go to my parents for Christmas, Santa comes to everyone.

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 15/10/2014 17:13

Having (clearly over-) thought about it, I'm not in any way comfortable with telling DD that FC/Santa is real. I can go along with reading her Christmas stories, because they are fiction and by definition made-up and she will hear them/act them out the same as with all her other books. Make believe/using imagination (so Brass's lets pretend game) would again be OK - because the players know it is not true. But telling her that Santa is real, when I have zero belief that he is real, would be a lie.

Thank you all for your assistance in crystallizing this for me. Smile

OP posts:
dreamerdoer · 15/10/2014 17:20

I do find it strange that so many people on here (I never meet them in real life!) seem think that the only way Christmas can be magical and wonderful is a literal belief in a fat man handing out presents.

Santa was never any more real to me than the characters in Narnia, or Snoopy etc. Christmas was always the most wonderful magical time of year, and I love it still.

Coffeeinapapercup · 15/10/2014 17:26

WHAT DO YOU MEAN SANTA ISNT REAL?!?!?!?!?

Of course he is. What a funny notion. Presents always appear in the living room Christmas eve so there is the absolute proof

grumblepuss · 15/10/2014 17:27

I'm not entirely sure I ever believed in santa. There is no religion in my family, so I think I just assumed he was a story like baby Jesus and god.
My family went for the Santa brings a stocking of little presents, but parents, friends and family bring presents under the tree.

Spookgremlin · 15/10/2014 17:32

Yes, that's exactly it. I overthought it too, but it'll be easier than you think to get it right.

This thread reminded me of Tolkien's Letters from Father Christmas, which he wrote every year to his children. It starts off to all of them, then gradually as each gets older and 'stops believing' they are still mentioned but no longer 'addressed' until only the youngest still receives them, which she continues to do until she is around 16. They're lovely, and reading through the years of four children's lives so quickly in the slim volume only reinforces that this time of childhood make believe is so so brief and you can make it really magical.

OwlWearingSunglasses · 15/10/2014 17:33

Of course there's a Santa! He calls every year here for us all. OK the things he leaves can be readily found in a poundshop near you... but he does call.

And I like eating chocolate buttons first thing in the morning on Christmas Day. Grin

Delphiniumsblue · 15/10/2014 17:39

I very much believe in the spirit of Father Christmas. I never felt 'lied to' - I felt very loved that my parents cared enough to make it magical for us and I did the same for my children. I am with Lemonade - however if you are not good at magic and don't understand it then I would do what you are comfortable with- making sure that she knows she isn't to spoil it for others.

Delphiniumsblue · 15/10/2014 17:42

I am. It surprised that some children keep it up if they think he won't call if they don't believe! He still came to our house regardless of who believed.

Delphiniumsblue · 15/10/2014 17:43

Sorry- it should have read 'I am not' rather than the full stop and It.

Tinkerball · 15/10/2014 17:46

Different strokes for different folks and all that. Do what you want OP, I find it mind boggling that this causes so much angst in people's lives (only on here mind you!) about "lying". It's not lying in my books and of course Christmas can be special, magical etc etc without "Santa"....but to me it was extra special and extra magical, not just my own experience of it from my own parents but also as a parent with my own children. Wouldn't swop any of it for the world. Doesn't bother me in the slightest what others do with their children.

nohysteriahere · 15/10/2014 17:53

When ds1 was 8 he asked about Santa as some of his classmates had told him Santa isnt realShock
I told him how a long time ago a man called st Nicholas believed that every child deserved a treat and travelled the world giving gifts to children.
I said that people thought it was such a nice thing to do that it became tradition and when we choose gifts for people we do so with love and because of St nick. I also told him that another name is Santa and he lives for one night in our hearts, therefore you could say that he is alive.

We leave mince pies, sherry and a carrot and the main gift is wrapped in fc wrapping paper that is only used for dc main gifts. They have fc name tags with just the dc full name on it.

OwlinaTree · 15/10/2014 17:57

Ahhh! I remember being beside myself with excitement on Christmas eve. I don't think it would have been as magical without waking up on Christmas morning to see the lumpy stocking at the end of the bed! We had small gifts from Santa, then presents from the family under the tree.

It's really not lying is it? It's joining in with a cultural tradition. I've never known anyone think their parents were hypocrits because they made them believe in Santa.

My mum still won't admit he's not real, and me and dsis are in our 30s! (He doesn't visit anymore tho.) I can't wait to take ds to see him and start that wonderful excitement at the magic again.

I think it's a noble sentiment not to lie, and sounds like you are sticking to it, but I really don't see this as a 'lie' at all. So YABU to tell her there is no Santa.

ProudAS · 15/10/2014 17:59

I was absolutely livid when I found out the truth. My mum told me and probably (rightly) thought I needed to know. I had started to wonder but didn't think my parents would have lied.

I do play along when around DCs though. There is something magic about it.

MissBattleaxe · 15/10/2014 18:29

Father Christmas is a fictional figure. My mother never actually looked me in the eye and lied about Santa saying "He is REAL", but she did say things like " Go to sleep or Father Christmas won't come" and I can honestly say that it really added to the magic of my childhood. I remember looking in the sky on Christmas Eve and I have never forgotten that feeling of wonder and excitement.

I still learned the difference between truth and lies and good and evil and right and wrong.

Santa is fiction and so is the Gruffalo and so is Goldilicks. Are you really going to preface everything with "This isn't actually true but it may entertain your imagination, which is not the same as reality."

Your DD is TWO!! You are most certainly over thinking this and in danger of helping her miss something really magical.

Fiction isn't lying- its' fiction!

BiddyPop · 15/10/2014 18:31

You don't have to lie to still allow the SC presence in your house if you want. You don't even have to couch it in the religious part of it - but talk about the historical figure of Nicholas who used to leave coins for poorer families. And this tradition of giving is continued worldwide to this day. Some people get more excited by it, some people have big stories around it, but really, it's all about lots of people copying a nice thing to do for your fellow man in the depths of winter.

Quite how to put that in 2 year old language, would give me more than the few minutes I have now -

But if you don't want to allow the SC presence into your house at all, then that is your own family decision in any event. (And just be aware it WILL come in through decorations, tv, music, craft things in school, kids talking etc).

Our DD is in a multi denominational school, where they don't learn religious catechism in school. They do have religious education, where they learn about all faiths and cultures (or at least 5 or 6). The annual PTA money raising event that time of year is "Winter cards" that all the DCs design. They celebrate Diwali, Christmas, Hannukah, and I don't even know what else. And we also celebrate yule in our house as well as Christmas. SC is big in ALL the DCs artwork, even when it is not lead by teachers and including all those who are different religious backgrounds or none at all.

So you may avoid it for a couple of years while your DCs are small, but be prepared to answer the questions in time to come. And it doesn't have to be answered by lying.

(And if I answered all the questions with the truth in our house, I would often not get to work, I would never get out for parent-time with DH or others, I would never get to the gym for a swim for my own exercise needs, and I would never be let go to the supermarket on my own. DD goes out a lot with just me or me and DH - we don't abandon her at every opportunity. I occasionally have work events at night. I occasionally want to see my aunts, and friends who work also and have grownup conversations. I need to lose 2 stone and get back to being fit. While teaching DD about money and budgeting and organization and allowing her to choose foods sometimes is vital, there are days I need to do it fast or without a constant refrain in my ear about what she will and won't eat, and not looking to fill the trolley with treats too. And I occasionally need a break from her ADHD/aspergers issues. So I don't lie for the sake of being mean to her, but for the sake of all our sanity.) While she made her FHC last year, (she does catechism outside of school), we do have indepth discussions about lots of stuff, including the truth of religion and philosophical issues, and lots of things that many feel are not appropriate to tell her the truth about - even death (and I don't do heaven, but tell her that some believe that, I don't, but that the person won't come back either), and things like real words not gibberish (when a baby) or not using nicknames for bodyparts but the real word.

BiddyPop · 15/10/2014 18:34

And for something not real, why would a US Government Agency (NORAD) go to such trouble to track him annually, when there is SUCH a furore in the US about the separation of church and State that cribs are not allowed in any State property generally and even Christmas trees are frowned upon (and not allowed in many cases), with some only being allowed as "Holiday Trees".

DiseasesOfTheSheep · 15/10/2014 18:37

I don't want to live in a world with a flaming ball of gas where the sun should be Sad

Roseformeplease · 15/10/2014 18:44

It is called FICTION and it is the way we learn to be creative and to exercise our imaginations. We are very, very good at creativity in Britain - hence our dominance in some spheres (Art, Fashion, Design) which far outweigh our population size.

I think you are misunderstanding fiction / fantasy which is not in any way telling lies. Was Elizabeth Bennet real? Sherlock Holmes? Snoopy? No. But they all fire our imaginations and teach us different things. I think Father Christmas teaches us something too. Goodness! There is time enough for fact and reality when they are older. You are offering Gradgrind's education - all facts, no imagination. How sad for your DD.

makeminered · 15/10/2014 18:45

I did too good a job at creating the magic of christmas, although as they got older I was careful not to outright lie. I carefully chose words which perpertuated the myth but wasn't actually a lie.

Dc was really upset when I let him know that Fc didn't exist - but he was about to start secondary school. Perhaps in retrospect, telling him just after christmas wasn't a good idea. It wouldn't have been such a shock and he wouldn't have felt such an idiot for believing so wholeheartedly, if I'd waited a few months. (In my defence I did think he must had had some suspicians he wasn't real)
He really did question what else we could have lied about if we could lie about that. He said he never wanted another present at christmas ever again etc. The rug was really pulled out from under his world. Funnily enough next christmas all was forgiven and he was happy that we had created the magic for him for so many years.

I'd do it again but I'd make sure Dc are let down more gently.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 18:49

Rose I agree, I think imagination is all without it we wouldn't be here today as a society.

I think since my DD was able to grasp a teeny bit of FC and now she is 7 she has only asked a few times if he is real maybe twice?

they dont even think he isnt real because everyone in RL goes along with it.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 18:52
  • I remember looking in the sky on Christmas Eve and I have never forgotten that feeling of wonder and excitement

I can honestly say if my mother had denied me that, and told me it was because she didn't want to be silly and lie I would have felt deeply deeply upset and dissapointed in her and I would have felt sorry for myself.

You have to be very careful with your childs personality. some children/people are very practical etc and some are more dreamers, romantics....to deny a romantic FC.....

chocolateyvelvet · 15/10/2014 18:56

None of us really know how children will react to what we do and don't do, abuse excepted .

We can only do what we feel is right.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 18:57

Reminded me of Anne of Green Gables where the uptight neighbour (Rachel?) says she doesn't read novels because they are full of lies, as in not true stories. yes Smile

KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 18:58

True choclate I have never met many people - infact 0 who have said they wished they had not been told FC existed. or rather their parents were not invested in it.