to not know what to do about Santa

[KleineDracheKokosnuss]

DH suggested I ask you lovely ladies for advice . And yes, I know it's not even Halloween yet...

I have a DD, who is two. We are coming up to her first Christmas where she might have a vague idea of what is going on and could understand a little about the various customs. I'm not religious, so Christmas for me is just a mid-winter feast/party/bit of time off work that I can spend with my DH/DD. The problem I have is what to do about St Nick. I can't decide if I should tell her he is real (and have to disabuse her later/risk having her spot that mummy lied) or perhaps take a different approach (in which case what approach?).

In part, I wonder if Terry Pratchett has it right and you have to tell children the small lies (tooth fairy, Santa) in order that they can later wrap their minds around the big 'lies' we use in society in order to be society (truth, justice,...). On the other hand, it just feels really wrong to me.

Moomin that's so sad about the sock. I am picturing your disappointment and near tearing up myself. Glad you've made happier Christmas memories for your own family.

We tell them that the elves make the toys, Santa delivers them and we get the bill for them.

I like this. The one thing I dislike about Santa is the idea that getting everything you want is only dependent on how good you are.

I didn't feel let down by my parents when I found out about FC (sorry, he's not Santa to me!) but won't tell the DCs he is 'real.'

No meaningful reason. Love Christmas but don't make a massive deal out of it. It surprises me that some feel so strongly about it.

I think you are thinking way too much into this.

Let your children enjoy the fantasy and magic and wonderful festivities!

I doubt anybody has been scarred for life over believing in Santa

I'm a different religion but let my kids believe in the wonder of Santa. I was brought up believing in him and didn't look at my parents as they'd lied to me. I have so happy memories of Santa and Christmas that I cherish. We have no littlies any more but my DH loves the full Santa thing. The kids have all left home and he still takes me outside to sprinkle reindeer dust . Santa still visits our house and fills the kids and their partners stockings. He leaves snowy footprints too! I'm normally wakened by DH jumping on the bed shouting "he's been" and rushing me downstairs to see what he's left. Santa isn't just for kids. Our house still believes .

It's not a lie to my mind. It's teaching them a bigger truth about the generosity and wonder that exists in the world. I can't wait until my DS is old enough to get it (he's only 4 months, so not this year).

In my house as far as my children know Santa/Father Christmas existed hundreds of years ago and today we still go through with the same traditions as though he is still going to deliver the presents but because he existed hundreds of years ago he obviously can no longer physically bring the presents himself and that's why Mum and Dad deliver them.

Its also why he wears those fantastic robes/clothes that really aren't in keeping with todays fashion....my eldest DD realised his clothes were very old fashioned aged about 5 hence my slight change to the story from him actually being a real figure to a historical one.

How on earth does anyone parent a toddler without lying? I tell DS I'm off to work when I'm going on a night out, I tell him the ride in the supermarket doesn't work when I don't want to spend £1 on it, I tell him the shower has ran out of water when he asks me to switch it on, and off, and on, and off...I rarely tell the truth TBH!
I think in your situation I would have the explanation ready but wait till she asks.

No ones been scarred for life for not believing, either

Different things are important to different people.

Bit ghoulish here and make a fuss over Halloween. It doesn't upset me that others don't

When I was 8 my mother told me the truth about santa (where I live kids believe til 12 generally), anyway my mother thought that she couldn't lie to me and I deserved to be treated with respect (her words) so she told me....I desperately wanted her to lie, I was happy to be lied to - I really really really did not want to stop believing. It's a lovely fantasy and my 12 year old - who should and probably would have cottoned on by now believes because she knows we couldn't have afforded the presents she got last year and the year before (I save and buy during the year). Go with the fib!!

Oh lemonade and other kindred souls, I completely agree. It's all about fun and a bit of magic. We go all out in our house!

There was a big thread about this quite recently, which got quite vituperative.

We do FC as a nice 'let's pretend' game, without DS believing he is literally real - lots of our friends do likewise, or have entirely different Christmas stories. Contrary to the views of lots of people on these threads who do differently, DS thinking of Santa as something akin to Fireman Sam or Peter Rabbit in no way makes Christmas a prosaic affair - we still have a tree and presents and stockings and carol singing and a steam train ride to a Santa grotto and leaving out mince pies and carrots etc, and he adores every minute.

I honestly feel that people who get shouty and defensive about childhood and innocence and the magic being gone are preserving an adult idea of childhood, and it's more to do with their own needs than their children's. Obviously, people are entirely at liberty to do Santa or not, but I get a bit tired of the 'joyless and forcing unpalatable realities upon children' view that gets expressed so often on here. Christmas doesn't require a literal belief in FC to be mysterious and exciting.

I'm completely with you, Brassrubbing

It gets a bit tiresome explaining that just because you don't explicitly inform DCs that FC exists, Christmas is a grey, miserable holiday.

A childhood without magic and wonder? wow I can't think of anything worse.

Santa has never been part of our tradition. That doesn't mean that Xmas is joyless or miserable. It has always been lovely. I don't buy all this guff about robbing children of the magic of Xmas, etc. If you don't want to incorporate Santa into your celebrations, then don't. It's really not mandatory.

Dd isn't sure she believes in the tooth fairy. I've been fairly non committal on it but when she woke to find a coin and sparkles left for her her face was pure excitement. I really don't feel lied to by my parents who were always honest about the important things.

I agree with brass ,you don't need to have DC believe in FC for Christmas to be magical ,my DC always knew it was just a story - and we have wonderful Christmases ( they're 21&15 now) . Our Christmas are as magical now as when they were small .

I think it's the other way round, brass and floral - there have been plenty of threads over the years where the passionate anti-Father Christmas brigade have been very po-faced, accusing everyone who 'does' FC of lying to their children.

Reminded me of Anne of Green Gables where the uptight neighbour (Rachel?) says she doesn't read novels because they are full of lies, as in not true stories. Shocked me so much as a child I still remember it today!

Op are you being serious? You need to learn the difference between make believe and lying. You are overthinking to the point of being ridiculous.

I just think sitting a child down and saying there's no fc is over complicating life as school, Christmas fêtes and parties etc will all raise issues. Why do that to yourself as a parent?

We never really "told" our kids about Santa "being real" - we put the stockings out so that Santa could leave presents, and everything else came from pop culture.

The only time we had an issue was when DD was 2 and a bit and completely hysterical about the idea of a man in her bedroom while she was asleep. We've left the stockings in the living room ever since.

But Santa doesn't bring the main presents in our house (I've never understood that, surely kids should be thanking the people who really gave them?) He fills stockings with well, stocking fillers.

My siblings and I range from 25 to 36 years old. If we go to MummyFickle's house for Christmas, FC always brings everyone a stocking.

How on earth does anyone parent a toddler without lying? I just do katienana. I have never felt any need to lie to her, e.g. she can't have a shower because it's not shower time/she's got all her clothes on, mummy's off the see her friends, etc.

*to

I think the decision may be made for you anyway.

My ds was 2.7 last year and he was the one banging on about Father Christmas from November on, we didn't say a word to him and he wasn't in childcare at the time either. He picked it up from books, tv and decided he was all for it, so we went along. He remembers leaving out the carrot etc from last year and is doubly excited for this one.

I wasn't sure about how to play this, simply because I had much older siblings so don't remember ever properly believing he was real, but we still did the make believe, and telling stories enough that I remember going to bed as a child on Christmas Eve and thinking "what if it was true?!". I demanded stories that began "It's Christmas Eve" in July. You can create magic for children without worrying too much about dishonesty. It's called pretend, and it's different.

If they're alarmed by it or not enjoying it anytime you can tell them it's pretend, like any other game, you don't rip the decs down screaming "IT'S ALL A LIE!!"

I spent the last week deep in character as Captain Barnacles. I went pretty method but they know I'm still their Mum. Kids can handle it