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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to not know what to do about Santa

333 replies

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 15/10/2014 13:27

DH suggested I ask you lovely ladies for advice Grin. And yes, I know it's not even Halloween yet...

I have a DD, who is two. We are coming up to her first Christmas where she might have a vague idea of what is going on and could understand a little about the various customs. I'm not religious, so Christmas for me is just a mid-winter feast/party/bit of time off work that I can spend with my DH/DD. The problem I have is what to do about St Nick. I can't decide if I should tell her he is real (and have to disabuse her later/risk having her spot that mummy lied) or perhaps take a different approach (in which case what approach?).

In part, I wonder if Terry Pratchett has it right and you have to tell children the small lies (tooth fairy, Santa) in order that they can later wrap their minds around the big 'lies' we use in society in order to be society (truth, justice,...). On the other hand, it just feels really wrong to me.

OP posts:
KleineDracheKokosnuss · 15/10/2014 14:18

Something like that lazybones. It's been a while for me too.

OP posts:
KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 14:18

roundandround51 Wed 15-Oct-14 14:00:45

totally agree.

I just think its joyless op your supposed to create magic in your childs life.

Spike milligans dc recaling the fairy letters he wrote them, were they weeping with angst because he lied to them?????

Roald Dhals children when he put a huge thing up at the window so they thgt it was the BFg, did they hate him for it?

are you going to read every single story to your child and make sure they know at the end its all not true, every film, but show them house hold bills, cracks in the pavement , ebola in the news, people dying, un fairness in justice...

sorry I shouldnt go on these threads. I had a sometimes bleak childhood and I wouldnt be here today if I didnt believe in the beauty of human spirit. and FC is beauty of human spirit

BoysiesBack · 15/10/2014 14:22

What Lemonade said. Every single word Smile

crazykat · 15/10/2014 14:24

I never felt lied to when I found out Santa/tooth fairy/Easter bunny didn't exist. Its all part of being a child IMO.

At the moment three of our DCs believe in Santa, ds2 is too young. I can't see it being long before dd1 stops believing as she figured out the tooth fairy doesn't exist.

We tell them that the elves make the toys, Santa delivers them and we get the bill for them. The theory behind this is that we can then explain that they can't have everything they ask for as DH and I still have to pay for it and some things are too expensive. We also tell them that sometimes too many children want the same present so the elves might not be able to make one for everyone who asks.

It may seem like we're over thinking it with the explanation but having seen the meltdown from nieces and friends kids when their parents couldn't afford something or it was sold out everywhere I thought it was a good idea to cover the bases. The kids had been told the traditional 'Santa's elves make all the toys and Santa delivers them in Christmas Eve' so they didn't understand why the elves couldn't make them an iPad/wii etc.

anyoldname76 · 15/10/2014 14:24

Personally I think its quite mean to do that, what is wrong with a child believing in Santa, Christmas is all about the magic for us. I remember believing in Santa when I was a child and I've thanked my mum and dad for giving me a magical childhood, I certainly don't see it as them lying to me

ArabellaTarantella · 15/10/2014 14:27

I definitely would make sure she knows that other children do believe in Santa and that she should not tell them otherwise.

And you expect a young child to not tell. Really?

CactusSeven · 15/10/2014 14:29

I don't think a 2 year old could really understand real/not real properly yet anyway.

You can do it as a game, and she'll think it's real - that doesn't mean you've lied to her, or that you can't gently show her that it isn't real in future years - if that's what you want to do.

When I'm about to read my 3 yo DD a story, I don't solemnly tell her it isn't real at the beginning. I think she still assumes it is real, and the idea it might not be comes gradually with a bigger understanding of the world. I'd hope that it came with the playful realisation that it can still be fun to pretend.

My 7 year old understands that some stories are real and some aren't, some things really did happen, albeit a long time ago, some are just purely made-up stories, and sometimes people can't remember properly what happened because it was so long ago, and so the story gets changed.

She still believes (and I'm happy to join in the fantasy) in witches, fairies, mermaids, Fr Christmas, God...Though I have told her that FC isn't a real man - though there was a real man a long time ago, called St Nicholas - but a special sort of magic.

edamsavestheday · 15/10/2014 14:29

OP, yes yes yes to Terry Pratchett's line on belief - I often quote it on these threads.
__
"All right,' said Susan. 'I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

"REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE"

'Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little- "

"YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES"

'So we can believe the big ones?"

"YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING"

'They're not the same at all!"

"YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-- "
Death waved a hand. "AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME... SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED"

'Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point---"

"MY POINT EXACTLY"
_

NB when ds worked out the situation from the grown-ups' point of view (being careful as I know some MNers read this with their kids around) he was very pleased at all the effort that had been involved on his behalf. No crisis at all. Neither was it for me, nor anyone I know.

CoolCat2014 · 15/10/2014 14:31

I never felt let down by my parents teaching me about Father Christmas.

I hated the kid who laughed at me for believing he was real though. Angry

littlemslazybones · 15/10/2014 14:31

Err, by Christmas I meant Santa, just pointing that out in case anyone thought I was being offensive.

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 15/10/2014 14:38

You can do it as a game, and she'll think it's real - that doesn't mean you've lied to her, or that you can't gently show her that it isn't real in future years - if that's what you want to do.

When I'm about to read my 3 yo DD a story, I don't solemnly tell her it isn't real at the beginning. I think she still assumes it is real, and the idea it might not be comes gradually with a bigger understanding of the world. I'd hope that it came with the playful realisation that it can still be fun to pretend.

Interesting point. I do read her her stories without prefacing with 'this isn't true but...', but I never tell her that the story is true (because it's not Smile). Maybe I could just stick with the stories/movies and not do the whole leaving out carrots/mince pies bit.

OP posts:
KleineDracheKokosnuss · 15/10/2014 14:44

We tell them that the elves make the toys, Santa delivers them and we get the bill for them.

Santa is Amazon Grin.

DH very much likes this as an explanation.

OP posts:
Moominmarvellous · 15/10/2014 14:47

We never had the whole Father Christmas thing in our house. My dad died around Christmas when I was small and I just don't think magic was a priority. But I WANTED the charade so badly, my friends all had it (I never told anyone that we didn't) and I remember one year I hung a school sock on the end of my bed just in case.

I think I'm actually going to cry for my child self now! Just do Santa. She can read thingy Pratchets theories when she's old enough to give a shit. Right now all they care about is fun and magic!!

Needless to say I go all out at Christmas in this house Grin

IceBeing · 15/10/2014 14:52

We are staunch rationalists...but we actually think we will do the 'santa' thing...after all what better way to get kids exercising their rationality than by feeding them the odd whopper so they can figure it out!

Moominmarvellous · 15/10/2014 14:53

Oh but as an aside, in our house Santa buys their main 'Christmas Wish' present and if they're good he shares the rest of their wishlist with everyone who loves them, so we still do Christmas thankyous, avoid ligistical questions and keep things in a reasonable budget - also minimises the lie aspect quite a bit.

ShowMeTheWonder · 15/10/2014 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SezaMcGregor · 15/10/2014 14:58

I tell DS about father Christmas - it's something that he and his friends discuss and get excited about.

The only time that it's been an issue is when one of the brats children younger than him told him that it's just your parents, he's 6 and this was last year.

I'm hoping to be able to squeeze one more year out of it, but think that this will be our last Christmas with FC visiting.

Although, it means that next year I can put more emphasis on choosing presents that people will love and spreading love etc which will be nice.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 15:01

these threads make me think of the thing that some people know the price OF everyhing and the value of nothing,

you cannot put a price on the wonder of christmas with small children, the gain and magic is priceless.

worth so much more than a dedication to absolute truth.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 15/10/2014 15:02

These magical years when you are lucky enough to share Christmas with young children, it's far more than a 'mid winter party'. It's a time when you make the best memories f both of your lives
YY

anyone seen the film the boat that rocked?

the two xmas parties, one wild one on the boat, great music, laughter, wild...the other, austere, restrained, the censorship man nearly had a heart attack when ONE cracker was pulled, and his wife peered over her glasses, and gave a tight little smile....

BiddyPop · 15/10/2014 15:26

My mother told me (the eldest). (In fairness, it was to do with, on being asked a question in a combined y3/y4 class about "where is Greenland?", I replied up near North Pole where Santa keeps his reindeer, and she didn't want me getting laughed at even more). Half the class still believed in December anyway, just were waaay more cynical in September (and tended to be cruel to me anyway as the "outsider" from the village as our family was not able to trace back 6 generations - we moved there when I was less than a year old). I was then on reduced rations (half a fruitbowl of fresh fruit to yourself!! (no row over who got the 1 red apple, as everyone got 1), sweets, book, I think there were a few small bits that year but no longer a big present) - but still had to leave out socks as the younger ones still believed.

She didn't tell any of the other 5 DCs when it came time, she let them work it out themselves. Suffice to say that as youngest DB (now aged 30) has never publicly renounced his belief, it allowed DPs to continue to fill any pairs of socks left out on Christmas Eve with a half a fruit bowl each, sweets and an age appropriate book. There were 3 filled last Christmas!!

I am convinced that DD (almost 9 and extremely logical) has worked out both FC/TF at least by last Christmas. But she's not saying anything. She's an only child, and when it becomes clear that she is a non-believer, we will continue to have stockings but DH and I will get one too then and she can help fill those 2.

I see it as part of the magic of the season and the spirit of giving. DD already goes and chooses a present to buy with money I give her that she would like but that we give to a local charity which helps children otherwise getting nothing, for someone her age. She wants to put things on the tree early in the morning while DH is not looking, so he gets a surprise from Santa too (last year, she had bought a Yorkie bar, as they are "not for girls" so would obviously be for DH!).

Just as in my house growing up, DD always has something under the tree from us. And any presents from anyone else in the wider family have always been from those people.

Santa brings a main present (or 2 smaller mains), and a stocking with fun stuff, half a fruitbowl, sweets, a book, and a few things needed too (socks, undies, toothbrush, facecloth, hair bobbins etc types of things I'd have to buy anyway). So he is both fun and practical. And we tend to focus more on the Christian story (even if I am practically atheist) and nature, and seasonal magic generally, rather than Santa, elves and being watched over for being good (although that has crept in on occasion) - and we don't do Elf on a Shelf or anything like that.

fuzzpig · 15/10/2014 15:38

I never told my DCs about Santa. When eldest went to nursery she heard about the idea and she was happy with it so I just followed her lead.

WD41 · 15/10/2014 15:47

Oh for goodness sake let your poor child enjoy the magic

youareallbonkers · 15/10/2014 15:48

What about the tooth fairy and the easter bunny?

Seriously??

youareallbonkers · 15/10/2014 15:51

incidentally my "children" are both well into their 20s and I still do them a stocking every Christmas from santa

littlemslazybones · 15/10/2014 15:51

The tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny tend to go first as they are less invested in the myth than they are Santa. Giving up on these is like practise for giving up Santa.