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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think I have good grounds for refusing to work with this person?

182 replies

kittensinmittens · 07/10/2014 22:02

Who:

Smokes
Listens to loud head banging music
Throws rubbish out of the car including cans (hate this, it affects wildlife)

I don't want any trouble but I don't see why I should have to put up with it either!!

OP posts:

LuisSuarezTeeth · 08/10/2014 07:56

I understand perfectly OP, I've done it. I actually refused double ups in the end. Are you on zero hours?

WD41 · 08/10/2014 07:57

Crikey OP. You've been extremely confrontational and aggressive on here - apply some of that charm IRL and you'll have it sorted in no time

KillashandraRee · 08/10/2014 08:04

Kittens I manage staff in similar roles to yours (not care but using own cars to drive to places of work, teams being put together in cars, mileage paid and travel time but not technically at work while in transit etc.)
Our staff are not allowed to smoke while driving it is in our handbook. You may find you have something in your handbook to say the same (pretty standard hr). While wearing a uniform they are also expected to act professionally and not do anything to bring company into disrepute (loud music and throwing cans would apply to this).
Whether you are paid for travel or not, you are rota'd to work and travel with this person therefore it is your workplace and she should abide by work rules. Your manager needs to tackle it and if you speak to them can do this as a blanket rule for all staff rather than singling out co worker (to protect you from any flack).

I have had many incidents with similar disagreements between staff so doubt this will be the first time your boss has had to deal with something like this. Speak to him/her in confidence, raise your concerns face to face and I'm sure they'll be able to figure out a solution for you (after all it is their job!)
Pm me if I can help further

Original poster

kittensinmittens · 08/10/2014 08:04

Yes, I'm on zero hours.

To be honest no ones commented (as far as I know) on the smell of smoke. But, we're out of people's homes all of the time so it's entirely feasible sometimes I do, despite not smoking. Many of the people we go to are so poorly that I think a whiff of smoke is the least of their concerns.

WD, I'm not going to start the whole argument about what a terrible nasty argumentative person I am because I got fed up explaining the same thing ten times over after fifteen hours plus working!

OP posts:

Original poster

kittensinmittens · 08/10/2014 08:06

Kills thanks.

I know legally that the rules are in my side! But it's so different to what it says in the handbook and what actually happens when you're working!

It's so nice to be understood. I think it was a sound off more than anything I needed yesterday. Nerves were a bit frazzled!

OP posts:

Nibledbyducks · 08/10/2014 08:06

Why not use your car? after months of your coworker driving surley just stating that it's your turn would be reasonable?

Then you would be quite within your rights to tell her your car, your rules...

Bunbaker · 08/10/2014 08:10

"Sympathies from me. Some people have forgotten how to be sympathetic as well as giving advice. No wonder you got annoyed at them."

And from me. The aggressive replies are from very self confident people who are assertive and have no idea what it is like to feel intimidated. They have no empathy.

I agree that you should just focus on the smoking issue with your boss. After all it is your working environment and why should you have to put up with it. I work in a smoke free office so you should be able to sit in a smoke free car.

Good luck and post on here when you have spoken to your manager.

ilovesooty · 08/10/2014 08:10

Oh for goodness sake She wwasn't confrontational She became defensive as she was upset. Thankfully some people havebeen empathic and rrealistic enough to see what I saw and respond as I did.

Ragwort · 08/10/2014 08:14

I really sympathise, it is very hard to work in these conditions - I assume you are a carer? The pay is low, the conditions are hard and it is not easy to just walk away from a job.

I work in an environment where it is just impossible to have a proper break, it is no use people saying to me on Mumsnet - you are entitled to a break, just tell your Manager blah blah blah - I am the Manager .

In some jobs you just have to accept the conditions, or resign, which isn't a reality for many people in areas where there are very few other opportunities.

I hope you sort something out.

EggsAreRound · 08/10/2014 08:16

Why not use your car? after months of your coworker driving surley just stating that it's your turn would be reasonable? Then you would be quite within your rights to tell her your car, your rules...

Please read the thread.

And boy, a better case of stacks on the mill I don't think I've ever seen. Dia may not have actually said the words 'it's your fault', but that was definitely the implication of the things she did say.

ilovesooty · 08/10/2014 08:16

Cross post there while I struggled with my phone as it froze.

I'm glad you got some replies that were realistic and sympathetic.
Given that I got an email from MNHQ recently reminding me of the expectations of the responses on AIBU I hope some of last night's posters get the same.
A good point too that this person is probably already known by management to be difficult.

Waspie · 08/10/2014 08:17

I agree with the poster upthread who suggested asked your HR dept. (or Snr. Manager if there isn't a formal HR team) for the policy on transporting co-workers. Even if you are not being paid during the travel time you are getting expenses (for petrol/wear and tear). There is no way she should be smoking in a work place (which the car effectively is) this is against the law. Also I would speak to your line manager about the littering and also about getting single jobs rather than those which call for to people.

Good luck OP. It must be a difficult situation.

Waspie · 08/10/2014 08:18

*Two people - grrr. Stupid fingers!

WaywardOn3 · 08/10/2014 08:19

www.stagesafe.co.uk/user_files/smoking-in-vehicles-used-for-work.pdf

Unfortunately looks like she has every right to smoke in her car unless it's primarily a company car? You can have the window open though or ask her if she'd mind not smoking in such an enclosed space?

Could you use driving time to go over work done or to be done? Would mean no music?

Bunbaker · 08/10/2014 08:19

It can't be very nice for the people being cared for to be looked after by a carer who stinks of cigarette smoke.

Pseudonym99 · 08/10/2014 08:22

Even though you're not getting paid for the travelling (a different argument...), the car is still being used for work purposes. It is therefore unlawful for anyone to smoke in that car. As daft as it sounds, even if someone is travelling on their own in their own car for work purposes, it is still unlawful, and the employer has a statutory duty to prevent people from doing it. If the employer is responsible, just bring it to their attention that she is smoking. You do not even have to say it is bothering you - just bring it to their attention. If the employer is not resonsible, bring it to the attention of the local council - it is the local council's duty to uphold the legislation. If you are doing care work, I imagine the council would have contracts with your employer, so no doubt would be interested if they were breaking the law by allowing employees to break the law...

LuisSuarezTeeth · 08/10/2014 08:23

It's tough when the person you're working with is a bit of a "favourite". It sounds like even without the smoking/music/littering you would struggle to work with her. Can you request that you just do singles?

As an aside, do a little exercise on your travel time. Add up all the time between calls, excluding travelling to first and home from last call. Add that on to your contact hours. Then take your pay excluding mileage, divide by total hours (inc travelling) and see what your pay rate is.

In your contract you will probably find a reference to "travel time is subsumed within the pay rate x".

I'll bet your actual rate comes out well below minimum wage.

Oh yeah, I'm a trouble-maker

EBearhug · 08/10/2014 08:23

I too would look into the rules about smoking in the place of work.

I think if someone threw a can from the window, I'd have burst out with, "Did you just throw that out of the window?" in a disbelieving tone before I'd even thought about it and possibly stopped to go and pick it up, depending how safe it was. On a day I am in a ranty mood, I might also launch into a lecture about the cost to wildlife and agriculture. People usually only drop litter in my company once. Fortunately, most people have been brought up as I was, so not many get to realise I can have strong feelings on the subject.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 08/10/2014 08:25

Despite all the laws, it's incredibly difficult in this area to enforce. A lot of agencies are far to busy trying to screw their staff to worry about smoking in cars.

Bunbaker · 08/10/2014 08:25

If she drops litter from her car and is spotted by a policeman it will be her number plate that gets checked, not yours .

LuisSuarezTeeth · 08/10/2014 08:25

PM if you want more info OP.

Stupidhead · 08/10/2014 08:39

There is a 2007 'no smoking in the workplace law' in effect. And a law against smoking on buses/taxis etc which I presume might include her/your car as you're travelling between jobs? Other than that I'd invent asthma or migraines from being in a confined space with a smoker. Migraines also brought on by loud music. This, IMO, is the politest way to deal with the situation and keep a reasonable working relationship. Especially as you should have dealt with the smoking the first time she lit up.

In your car insist she does not smoke, have a carrier bag for rubbish citing that the car owner gets fined not the litterer (I think I made that word up!).

I'm a smoker, sometimes in the car but NOT with non smokers or children, I listen to metal but I don't litter. I would have consideration for the passengers which this work mate obviously doesn't.

roundtable · 08/10/2014 08:50

Wowsers, nothing like kicking someone when they're down is there? Then doing it again and again. Nasty and unnecessary.

Op you sound at the end of your tether. Could ringing Acas be any help or are you part of a union?

If you're not, I would recommend it. They can speak on your behalf and give you advice.

I hope you're feeling better this morning. Good luck with it all.

grocklebox · 08/10/2014 09:03

It really is vrey simple. You go to your boss and tell them that your co-working is illegally smoking in the workplace (the car counts as does unpaid travel time...which in itself is legally dodgy) and also illegally littering and making your job difficult to do.
Then you let your boss sort it out. And insist on using your car so that you can enforce the rules.
And look for a new job, because that one is rubbish.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 08/10/2014 09:25

Of course grockle. Just like that.

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