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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think Restorative Practice is a steaming pile of horseshit?

158 replies

BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 15:56

DD is in Yr 1.

I was waiting for her outside her classroom today. The windows look onto their cloakroom.

I looked through the window and saw DD sitting on the bench changing her shoes. A (much larger) boy in her class (who I have seen act badly and have heard unpleasant things about) was standing over her slightly to the side. He was leaning over her somewhat intimidatingly. DD smiled at him uncertainly. He then pushed his whole body into her and pinched her extremely hard on the upper arm Shock Angry while staring manically at her. DD shrieked and exploded into tears.

I almost broke the window banging it at him. The wee fucker Angry .

I immediately knocked on the door and explained what I'd seen to the teaching assistant.

DD's took them both into a room and then came out and explained their policy of Restorative Practice and asked if I would be willing to sit down with DD, her and the little turd boy.

DD got a halfassed apology and the teacher said that he was standing up for a friend that DD had been bossy to (she can be verbally bossy and we don't tolerate it - it happens very rarely and she's a star pupil). I told the teacher that I refused to accept that physical violence is an acceptable way of standing up for your friends. The boy was unfazed. Why wouldn't he be when there are no consequences for his appalling actions?

We left and came home. I am still raging and plan to ask the the teacher tomorrow whether or not his parents have been informed. I think they should be.

AIBU to think that this softly softly way of dealing with bad behaviour is not doing our kids any favours? Before anyone leaps on me, I'm obviously not saying bring back the cane but the boy should lose some of his privileges or incur some form of punishment for his behaviour?

Disclaimer: DD is my PFB and my celtic blood is up.

AIBU?

OP posts:
ILovePud · 30/09/2014 16:26

I think the idea of talking to them about why what they did was wrong and looking together at the context of the incident is good practice but I think for a physical attack the sanction was inadequate, I think a loss of some privileges would be appropriate. Something like losing a few minutes of golden time, if that's a system your school uses would have seemed better. Their both still very little (5?) but I think there should be zero tolerance of physical attacks in school, children should feel safe there. I'd hope the boy's parents were told too, if my DC had done this I'd want to know. Brew Hope your DD is ok and has a better day tomorrow.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 16:30

Thank you Pud.

I agree that in theory it sounds perfectly reasonable but DD's teacher, while sweet, comes across a bit dithery and ineffectual so the implementation is the problem.

I know he's only a child but he has form for this type of behaviour and as far as I'm concerned it needs to stop. I am going to push for his parents to be informed if they haven't already.

OP posts:
DayLillie · 30/09/2014 16:33

It would have been a good way of sorting out DD being bossy to the friend.

But not for sorting out physical attack by from the third party. That needs something different.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 16:35

Agreed Day. DD had already apologised to her friend that she had been bossy too but while I was there she did so again (without being prompted) and they had a hug and made up Smile .

OP posts:
BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 16:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 16:39

Wrong thread Blush

OP posts:
Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 17:33

Anyone else?

Have calmed down now but am still rather annoyed.

OP posts:
ILovePud · 30/09/2014 17:42

I can't believe a thread with 'steaming pile of horseshit' in the title hasn't drawn more people in either Bunny! Wink

LindyHemming · 30/09/2014 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

skylark2 · 30/09/2014 17:51

Do you seriously think the teacher was going to discipline someone else's kid in front of you? How would you like it if the parent of the child your DD was bossy to was called in to hear your DD apologise, and had a say in what her punishment should be?

And what possible difference can it make whether a child is a star pupil? Is that supposed to excuse inappropriate behaviour?

YABVU, I'm afraid.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 30/09/2014 17:58

No skylark I didn't want the child to be disciplined in front of me. Where have I said that?

I didn't expect the teacher to ask for my involvement at all. Never mind ask me to sit down in a circle with him while she tried to make him apologise. That's exactly my point. It wasn't productive. It was a waste of time. He should have been punished by her though and his parents informed of what he had done.

And if I were called into school about DD being bossy then I would go and I would discipline her accordingly. I would be very surprised if that happened though given that it's in no way comparable to a deliberate physical attack Hmm.

OP posts:
primarynoodle · 01/10/2014 08:25

ooo bunny I watched your live labour thread Grin

hope your littlest dc is ok! (and your dd is too!)

MammaTJ · 01/10/2014 08:40

My DD had this. She then made a comment to the HT that J was being nice to her atm. I said I would prefer she stay away from her though (history of being nice for a while, then suddenly turning on DD again). HT replied that was unfair as they had worked hard with both girls to make sure they were nice to each other. That got a rather indignant 'My DD was never not nice. If you gave sanctions like not letting her out at plat time it might have been stopped sooner'.

DD has moved up to middle school and I have had to go in twice already. I told the HOY that if he doesn't sort it, he will be doing both girls a disservice, DD because she will continue to be hurt and the bully because she turns 10 soon and I will start calling the police every time she hurts her. It hasn't happened since (a week and a half), so I hope keeping her in at lunch time has done the trick.

Hairtodaygonetomorrow · 01/10/2014 08:52

I agree these things aren't appropriate for more severe cases. My dd was bullied by a new boy (not a one off which in fairness this might have been) and the school were very good in putting him on a pupil report (every breaktime and lunch was monitored), getting his parents in, and also apologising which was a written apology. I would let the teacher know you are keeping an eye out for repeat performance and if this happens, then you would prefer more action to be taken.

However, these things do happen- my 6 year old dd was punched in the face by a child and the explanation given was 'he has issues'. I'm amazed she went back into school after that, I wouldn't if it was my workplace.

My children hate Kelso's rules (new type of restorative thing done in the playground by other children) because they end up having to apologise for things where they don't think they have done the wrong thing. Say if they are playing with one child A happily and another B says 'leave A and come and play with me' they refuse then child B starts crying, then the intervention team come along and make everyone apologise- including my dd who doesn't see why they should apologise for standing up for herself or not doing what manipulative children want just because they cry! Overall, I can't say there seems to be much improvement in the make friends/break friends type of behaviour which seems ingrained in late primary in girls, but perhaps nasty behaviour/names etc.

MidniteScribbler · 01/10/2014 08:57

You have no idea what will now go on between the teacher, the student and his parent. It is very likely that she will want to discuss punishments with his parents before making a decision, and this is not something that will be done in front of you and your daughter.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 01/10/2014 09:03

DP took DD to school today and spoke to the teacher.

The boy's parents have been spoken to. That's all I wanted to know. I would want to know if my child had attacked a classmate.

DP also told the teacher that we'd be keeping a close eye on DD's interactions with this boy where possible and that we would expect more to be done in the event of a repeat incident.

Sorry for you and your DD Mamma Sad I have to say I didn't think I'd be experiencing bullies this early in DD's education. Which is precisely what this boy is.

OP posts:
Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 01/10/2014 09:04

And thank you primary Grin

DS is 7 weeks today and laid here beside me gurgling and smiling Smile .

OP posts:
MammaTJ · 01/10/2014 09:08

DD1 had it as early as reception. DD2, the one going through it most recently, it started in year 1. It has continued on and off since then. I am quite friendly with the girls mum but she cannot cope with her. I have told her I will start calling the police once the bully turns 10. She is just relieved I am not ranting at her!

ElephantsNeverForgive · 01/10/2014 09:11

His parents will get called in eventually, far too late, when everyone in the village thinks he's a horrible larger brat.

He wasn't, he just had carers who thought boasting your own self esteem by picking on anyone faintly different was normal.

Sadly, schools pussy foot about far too long, with this lets all be nice to each other shit. Victims, bullies and children who don't know when they have gone to far, all suffer.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 01/10/2014 16:06

I picked DD up today and made it out of school before she told me that the same boy had thrown shoes at her today Angry .

Marched straight back to school to see the teacher. Long story but I feel no more confident in their tactics than I did yesterday Sad .

As vindicated as I feel in my criticism of yesterday's handling of the incident I am RAGING that DD has been hurt again.

Would a meeting with the head teacher be a worthwhile next step?

OP posts:
ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 01/10/2014 16:12

He threw a pair of shoes at her? Yeah, I would be asking what they were going to do to stop it happening again.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 01/10/2014 16:43

Yes hoppy.

I'm really not happy with their responses to my questions. It all sounded very wishy washy and non-committal.

Apparently their philosophy involves gentle and consistent reinforcement of the message until it sinks in Hmm .

I told them that in the period that took, my daughter was not going to be his personal punch bag Hmm .

His parents have been informed and I got the distinct impression this isn't the first time.

OP posts:
afterthought · 01/10/2014 17:07

Where I work, the child(ren) receive a sanction then restorative practice occurs before the child returns to lessons with the other person (could be a member of staff or other child).

I think it is really important and can help to build a more positive relationship but I don't think it should be used instead of punishments.

Original poster
BunnyLebowski · 01/10/2014 17:13

Yeah I understand how it can work afterthought and think it's a good approach in certain situations.

I just think that today's incident is proof that it didn't work yesterday.

One thing that I found very objectionable is that they allow the punishment to be decided by the 'victim'. So when put on the spot DD said that an apology would suffice. He eventually muttered sorry but it was far from heartfelt.

I don't think a 5 year old should be deciding this. It removes responsibility from the teachers and is a huge cop out in my opinion.

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 01/10/2014 17:21

I think too much can be made of this "let's all sit down and discuss it and say sorry, shall we?" approach - I agree it can work in some cases but in your DD's, Bunny, I would say that it isn't appropriate at all.