to think Restorative Practice is a steaming pile of horseshit?

[BunnyLebowski]

DD is in Yr 1.

I was waiting for her outside her classroom today. The windows look onto their cloakroom.

I looked through the window and saw DD sitting on the bench changing her shoes. A (much larger) boy in her class (who I have seen act badly and have heard unpleasant things about) was standing over her slightly to the side. He was leaning over her somewhat intimidatingly. DD smiled at him uncertainly. He then pushed his whole body into her and pinched her extremely hard on the upper arm while staring manically at her. DD shrieked and exploded into tears.

I almost broke the window banging it at him. The wee fucker .

I immediately knocked on the door and explained what I'd seen to the teaching assistant.

DD's took them both into a room and then came out and explained their policy of Restorative Practice and asked if I would be willing to sit down with DD, her and the little turd boy.

DD got a halfassed apology and the teacher said that he was standing up for a friend that DD had been bossy to (she can be verbally bossy and we don't tolerate it - it happens very rarely and she's a star pupil). I told the teacher that I refused to accept that physical violence is an acceptable way of standing up for your friends. The boy was unfazed. Why wouldn't he be when there are no consequences for his appalling actions?

We left and came home. I am still raging and plan to ask the the teacher tomorrow whether or not his parents have been informed. I think they should be.

AIBU to think that this softly softly way of dealing with bad behaviour is not doing our kids any favours? Before anyone leaps on me, I'm obviously not saying bring back the cane but the boy should lose some of his privileges or incur some form of punishment for his behaviour?

Disclaimer: DD is my PFB and my celtic blood is up.

AIBU?

And also for clarification, I didn't shout at or even talk to the boy.

I knocked, he let go of DD and turned to face the window. I glared at him and then I walked to the door and knocked. The TA opened it so I explained what I saw.

I have it read the whole thread so apologies if I say something that has already been suggested.

1. I bet the school would of taken a different approach had you not witnessed it. Possibly brushed it aside.
2. I would've surprised if the it's parents where called unless the boy has already been warned before.
3. it was un fair of the school to do restorative justice with just you being their (boy had no support). Usually it's just the children and depending on how the staff are trained to what level they question/resolve/listen/reflect. If parents get involved it tends to get tricky as most with fight theories corner.

I hope your Dd is ok and try to ensure she tells you what is happening. I would give the school a chance to respond and then advise them if it gets worse etc then it's time for ht or governors.

Wheresthelight, emotional abuse is a form of domestic violence. Controlling behaviour can be absolutely devastating and if this girl is doing this to this lad's friend that needs to be dealt with as much as the physical intimidation.

Emotionally abusive 5 year olds. I love the histrionics on MN.

Five year olds do not possess the capability of being emotionally abusive. They're still very me-centric. She was bossy because she wanted something, and that's where the thought process stopped. She wasn't bossy to control him or play mind games with him, even advanced five year olds aren't that sophisticated. Let's stop putting adult concepts on little children.

Bossiness should be dealt with appropriately, the apology and card were fine. She admitted she was wrong and presumably hasn't done it since. The girl has been dealt with.

Physically attacking someone is not acceptable under any circumstances. Not as a child, not as an adult. But back to being five, his thought process was probably "I don't like you, so I'll hit you". Nothing deeper there. He needs to know that under no circumstances should he ever hit a peer. It's an essential life skill to be taught that you do not hit someone no matter how angry they make you.

Small children go on impulse and they think in black and white. Talking about feelings is going to go over some children's heads because they are just not developmentally ready to put themselves in another's shoes. Some kids need immediate consequences and punishment, this boy is one of those children.

Honestly, children like firm boundaries. They need consistency. They thrive in an environment where doing A will always result in B.

Thanks funny.

I totally agree with your first point. I thought the same thing.

I also agree that involving me in the 'sit down' was inappropriate. The incident had literally just happened so I was angry and upset. Not ideal for that kind of thing. And he had no-one there with him. That did strike me as odd.

Good post Bulbasaur. Thank you

I'd change her school. Restorative justice is a great idea but it needs to be implemented appropriately and properly. You will have years o tearing your hair out. Move her.

I'm sorry she's been hurt again today, Bunny. I hope that the school will continue to be firm in their approach and this will be the end of it.

tallyhoho
Thanks for your post, but I think we are on our own. The OP has made up her mind. Her thinking is almost as black and white as a year 1. If she was in year 1 then perhaps we be taking her aside for a dose of restorative justice about her bad language!

Informal exclusion is illegal. If a school is going to exclude a child then they should either do it legally or not all.

"Again agree with fairy vast majority of 5 and even 4 year old already have a keen understanding of what is right/wrong and good/bad behaviour...else you'd have 22 out of a class of 24 running amok all day2

My daugher's class had three five year olds running amock today at some stage of the day. 90% of the time five year olds get behaviour right. They sometimes lose focus/ patience at the end of the day. Maybe I am the odd one out in that my five year old occassionally misbehaves at home.

Saying that someone has an understanding of right and wrong is not black and white. Empathy develops through out life. Why do we bother to have a criminal age of responsiblity if all five year olds are as mature as adults? Five year olds have a developing moral compass and they make mistakes along the way. RJ helps the aggressor understand how the other party feels. It models a better way of dealing with conflict resolution.

"Small children go on impulse and they think in black and white. Talking about feelings is going to go over some children's heads because they are just not developmentally ready to put themselves in another's shoes. Some kids need immediate consequences and punishment, this boy is one of those children. "

That is what advocates who want to bring back the cane would say. It is far less work to bully five year olds into doing exactly as the school/ parents wants rather than explaining WHY. Unfortunately many sanctions are ineffectual as they are impossible to put into immediate affect. (ie. a child cannot miss playtime when its hometime.) Civilised people attempt to explain to children why certain actions are not acceptable.

"Civilised people attempt to explain to children why certain actions are not acceptable."

Which the teacher did. The message clearly didn't get through as he did it again. And again. On the next two consecutive days.

As I said upthread I am not prepared to allow my daughter to be this child's personal punchbag for however long it takes for this child to learn that hitting/pinching/pushing is not acceptable. My DD learned that lesson by about 3. Maybe his parents should have tried harder.

Bunny,

I am not sure wher the "hysterical and incorrect" posts are. There are just people giving their solicited opinion. If you had presented a coherent and convincing argument that RJ was horseshit, I would be the first to agree you were being reasonable in calling it "horseshit". As for the separate issue of the way you handled the situation in the heat of the moment I can honestly say IME (20+ years in education) such responses from adults exacerbate such incidents and are not helpful. That said, no one wants to see their child getting bullied (this is why consequences and sanctions within school should be addressed with objectivity).

I have read your subsequent posts about the continued attacks on your daughter and personally I would be very concerned with this pattern of behaviour being escalated in such a short space of time targeting her with no provocation. After the first incident the School should have ensured your daughter was supervised when with this boy at association times. This is easily achieved. For the third incident to have occurred is completely inexcusable and unacceptable.

Thank you tally.

I concur LaQueen. If there had been a proper punishment after the first incident I can't help but think it might have prevented the other two. The overly soft approach they took didn't work on this occasion.

As I said at the start of this thread I'm not looking for corporal punishment to be brought back. I just think that a tangible punishment would have been more appropriate and fruitful. A loss of a certain privilege or something like that.

Hopefully that's the end of it now and we can all move on. Especially DD. She loves school. We juat want that to remain the case.

ReallyTired,

I can assure you we are not on our own.

The sequence of events is very odd here.

1. Bunny sees DD getting "attacked"

2 . Bunny bangs classroom window almost to the point of smashing it.

1. Some sort of RJ is proposed and undertaken.

1. Bunny posts on here saying RJ is horseshit, child is a wee fucker and turd (assuming she has had a lapse to calm down the way I would expect an adult would).

1. Bunny asks AIBU, thanks all who says she is and calls all the others hysterical and accuses them of posting inaccuracies.

1. MNs who agree support the effectiveness of nearly smashing windows as a deterrent and those who don't want their children to get beaten to a pulp?

1. A further two unprovoked attacks occur to illustrate RJ is "horseshit" (not of course reflecting that a grown adult banging hard on a window can provoke a small child).

I can see other posters POV but there have been no convincing arguments to support her behaviour being reasonable Much less that RJ is horseshit.

Sorry, posted in haste with loads of errors

We used Restorative Justice with the police when DD got beaten up and repeatedly kicked in the head in front of about 200 kids on the school field when in yr 8 by another girl.

I thought it was great, we got our say, DD got hers and the girl and her parents did too and the girl realised what a horrible dangerous thing she had done.

She apologised then (she kind of had to) but also of her own accord a yr later to DD when no one else was around.

They aren't best mates but they sit next to each other in some classes now in yr 11 :)

It is puzzling me too LaQueen.

The posters on this thread have more or less said my DD must have been asking for it and have implied that she's a brat. And now are implying that I'm lying.

Kinda undermines any valid point they may have had really doesn't it .

Fwiw my daughter is amazing. She is kind and thoughtful and funny and incredibly intelligent. A free reader since the age of 4, star of the school play and has just been elected onto the school council. And she's beautiful to boot. I have no doubt whatsoever that she will have a happy and illustrious school career .

"Fwiw my daughter is amazing. She is kind and thoughtful and funny and incredibly intelligent. A free reader since the age of 4, star of the school play and has just been elected onto the school council. And she's beautiful to boot. I have no doubt whatsoever that she will have a happy and illustrious school career"

How is any of that relevent? We all think our children are amazing. Being in love with our children can make blind to their faults or the possibly that they may have contributed to an incident. However there is no such thing as a perfect human being. Even the most angelic of children can have their moments.

I feel the OP thinking is far too black and white. Most children are somewhere in the middle between being a saint and a demon. Saying that a child is less than perfect does not make them brat anymore than saying a child who pinches another child is a turd. Thankfully schools are aware that the world of five year olds is several shades of grey.

tallyhoho I think its time for us to back off from this thread. The OP have behaved like a five year old and worst still cannot see it.

Weathergames,

IME, RJ can work very effectively. It doesn't necessarily mean that other sanctions should not be imposed also.

Culprits do need to have consequences but adults banging windows in schools, giving children death stares and wading in with no knowledge at all is just crazy. They are 5 FGS. Adults should behave like adults. I would have been mortified if my parents did what the OP did and I know my DCs would. ( they are embarrassed enough as it is that I am known by the staff due to me being in education )

If they have gone straight from restorative practice to exclusion I don't get the impression they are using it as intended or there is more going on behind the scenes that the OP isn't aware of.

just looked up a website and it says:

^Restorative approaches are based on four key features:
RESPECT – for everyone by listening to other opinions and learning to value them
RESPONSIBILTY - taking responsibility for your own actions
REPAIR – developing the skills within our school community so that its individual members have the necessary skills to identify solutions that repair harm and ensure behaviours are not repeated
RE-INTEGRATION - working through a structured, supportive process that aims to solve the problem and allows young people to remain in mainstream education^

It doesn't say "and if after a couple of days you still have problems, blowed if I know what you should do - kick them out?"

I suspect what you saw, OP, wasn't an example of restorative practice used appropriately or properly. I would have thought that there are many, many situations where it isn't appropriate to use it immediately after an incident. Also a boy who was so close to being excluded should have been more closely monitored before the incident. Unless schools need to wait until behaviour reaches crisis point before they can get appropriate resources??

(Of course you don't know the answer to my questions OP and your concern is justifiably your daughter).

I think you are right RT. I'm not sure who has said the OP is lying and has a brat daughter . I have heard the culprit is a wee fucker, turd etc.

I wouldn't count on us getting any thanks and flowers for any of our input .

Not sure why OP posted AIBU

Hey, but now I have read a bit of that website and know all about it, would anyone like to do a bit of restorative practice on this thread... Anyone.... Anyone?

I would be game merrymouse if it wasn't such a pile of horseshit.