to think Restorative Practice is a steaming pile of horseshit?

[BunnyLebowski]

DD is in Yr 1.

I was waiting for her outside her classroom today. The windows look onto their cloakroom.

I looked through the window and saw DD sitting on the bench changing her shoes. A (much larger) boy in her class (who I have seen act badly and have heard unpleasant things about) was standing over her slightly to the side. He was leaning over her somewhat intimidatingly. DD smiled at him uncertainly. He then pushed his whole body into her and pinched her extremely hard on the upper arm while staring manically at her. DD shrieked and exploded into tears.

I almost broke the window banging it at him. The wee fucker .

I immediately knocked on the door and explained what I'd seen to the teaching assistant.

DD's took them both into a room and then came out and explained their policy of Restorative Practice and asked if I would be willing to sit down with DD, her and the little turd boy.

DD got a halfassed apology and the teacher said that he was standing up for a friend that DD had been bossy to (she can be verbally bossy and we don't tolerate it - it happens very rarely and she's a star pupil). I told the teacher that I refused to accept that physical violence is an acceptable way of standing up for your friends. The boy was unfazed. Why wouldn't he be when there are no consequences for his appalling actions?

We left and came home. I am still raging and plan to ask the the teacher tomorrow whether or not his parents have been informed. I think they should be.

AIBU to think that this softly softly way of dealing with bad behaviour is not doing our kids any favours? Before anyone leaps on me, I'm obviously not saying bring back the cane but the boy should lose some of his privileges or incur some form of punishment for his behaviour?

Disclaimer: DD is my PFB and my celtic blood is up.

AIBU?

I don't think a 5 year old should be deciding this. It removes responsibility from the teachers and is a huge cop out in my opinion.

It also makes the victim the punisher in the bully's mind, which will make him resent her more.

Yes, I really could care less on how they're talking about "feelings" with him. My DD is not collateral damage in the mean time.

I'd write a note, so that you have written confirmation that they are aware of the problem and if she continues to be injured while in their care you can escalate it to the proper channels.

BunnyLebowski

"
I almost broke the window banging it at him. The wee fucker angry . "

I feel that your behaviour was pretty questionable. A five year old child is not a "wee fucker". Having an adult banging on the window must be terrifying to a small child. I feel that the head teacher should be having a word about YOUR behaviour. As an adult you should not act like a primary school kid. The head teacher would be within her rights to ban you from the premises.

Year one children have immature soical skills. They make mistakes and often the "victim" is as much as fault as the aggressor. Even five year old girls can be bitchy and hurt people's feelings. Perhaps this little boy needs to learn to control his fists, but maybe your daughter needs to learn some basic manners.

Teachers know that these situations are not black and white which is why they use strageries like restorative justice. Restorative justice models better social skills so that children do not use their fists or unpleasent words to resolve their differences.

Thanks Thumbwitch .

Right now I might feel like it's a pile of touchy feely, new-age, hippy dippy nonsense and that the boy in question would benefit more from a toe up the hole. But that would be incredibly politically incorrect of me. Hypothetically speaking.

With the greatest of respect ReallyTired, fuck off.

My daughter did not cause or deserve either of these attacks. There has been no suggestion of any such thing by the teacher. Nice attempt at victim blaming though eh?

And I banged the window because there was a locked door between me and my daughter who was being attacked. It was this action that made the little shit (for that is indeed what he is) stop attacking her. So no, my behaviour was not out or order and I wouldn't change it.

Maybe you either a) don't mind your child being attacked or b) have a child similar to this bully. I do and I don't, respectively, and I'm damned if I'm going to stand back and watch my child being attacked while doing nothing.

Yes, Reallytired - and we can see how well it worked with this boy since he then threw a pair of shoes at Bunny's DD. Excellent policy.

Bunny you sound really OTT. The journey through the school years may be quite a trial for you if your blood is boiling at he first hurdle and the offender (5 years old) is referred to as a bully and a wee fucker who needs a toe up is hole!

I think the teachers know what they are doing and you just sound really hot headed and fired up. We ALL hate to see our kids on the receiving end of bad behaviour, you don't have the monopoly on that.

Adult calling a 5 year old a fucker to the world online ???.

My blood was boiling because my daughter was subjected to two deliberate and malicious physical attacks.

Yes, I have ranted on here. Isn't that what MN is for? In my dealings with the teachers I have been nothing but calm and polite. Neither DP nor I have approached this child's parents because we want to trust the school to deal with the issue.

I don't care how old a child is. It is not acceptable behaviour to deliberately hurt another child. Ever.

An accidental push in the playground? Fine. These things happen. You get up and shrug it off.

Two attacks on two consecutive days, one of which has left my DD with a nasty bruise on her arm? Nope. Not acceptable.

Oh that's what they call it? Restorative practice? Yes, it's horseshit. They put me through that at school. It was horrible. When I told teachers I was being bullied I had to sit down with them and the bully at break time and talk about it. There were no consequences for the bully, I missed out on break time too so felt like I was also being punished, the bully got away with giving a fake apology and knew who had told so they could target me later. It's pathetic and ineffectual. It doesn't benefit the children, children need boundaries, rules and consequences. It's a horrible lesson to learn that someone can hurt you at school and not even get into trouble.

I agree with reallytired
The little boy might be physically larger than your DD, but she is likely more mature and possibly (I don't know your DD of course) manipulative.some children are very adept at goading a child with a short fuse,who are not articulate until they lash out, then the former comes up smelling of roses as the poor little victim.
Being bossy is a form of being overbearing and intimidating others.I think you need to put a bit of trust in the teachers experience, training, knowledge of how the children interact at school.

I think there's a world of difference between an (understandably) angry mum who's just seen her daughter physically attacked calling an anonymous boy a fucker on a forum and calling it him IRL.

But Bunny no one is saying its acceptable but my goodness give the teachers the chance to resolve it before claiming their whole approach is wrong. It probably works for thousands of children each day but if it doesn't help in this case they will need to find an alternative way of dealing with the problem, and quickly. I think you are talking about very small, socially and emotionally immature children - 5 year olds - as if they are teenagers and you need to be in the teachers faces demanding retribution and a strong arm approach.

Ilovepud
"Wee fucker, little turd, toe up his hole and bully"
OTT imo

I would def be seeing the HT. Your DD needs to know you will stand up for her.

I think Bunny instinctively banged on the window. I would have too. If the kid got a bit of a fright at that then serve him right. I don't agree with this restorative justice stuff either, for the exact reasons Topaz has given. My son said the same thing to me when he was in primary - not only does he end up missing whatever (whether it's play time or part of a lesson) you have to relive it all again for a half hearted apology that means nothing until the next time. It does not help the victim at all. I think in terms of two kids that normally get on falling out then fine.

Sorry but I think a bit more punishment wouldn't go amiss - nothing heavy at that age but something, a missed playtime or something. The only thing that stopped my DS's bully was the threat at 10 I'd phone the police next time. Stopped it dead. Bunny get on to the HT. It doesn't matter what age the child is, do you not think it's damaging for a child to go to a place every day not knowing when she'd be attacked next? Adults wouldn't put up with it at work. Bunny as the mother has to do her job and get it stopped. Some people are emotional and actually witnessing someone hurt your child can be quite upsetting.

He's a bully. He IS a wee fucker in my opinion too.

GogoGobo - I think many parents would be somewhat irate if their child had been physically attacked twice in 2 days. OP is not claiming that her DD is perfect, but assuming that the OP's posts are true her DD apologised to the child she had been bossy towards and they had made up - the boy who has hurt her was not that child!

How many times is it acceptable for OP's DD to be hurt before she can claim that the school's approach is wrong? How seriously does her DD have to be hurt before she can say that the methods used are not appropriate?

Why is "restorative practice" horseshit? What else should teachers to do to resolve squabbles between five year olds? How else do you suppose a teacher should get to the bottom of why a five year old has lashed out towards the same child in two days?

Life is not always simple and clear cut. I feel the biggest issue was attempting restorative justice at the end of the when both children were tired. I feel its worth missing a lesson or a bit of playtime occassionally to learn better ways of coping with conflict/ difficult people. There is more to education than just passing SATs.

Seven years ago my son had an incident of one off thuggery at five years old. He punched a child who taunted him and called him "spastic" because he wore hearing aids. The head teacher used "restorative justice" to get to the bottom of what happened. She also spoke to other children and dinner ladies who had witnessed the incident. After the sessions the headteacher decided that BOTH boys deserved to miss playtime for a week.

Violence is not the right approach to resolving conflict, but it is sometimes VERY understandable why an immature five year old might throw a punch or lash out. Children also need to understand when their words and actions hurt people.

I have a daughter of the same age as the OP. Thankfully she hasn't yet been "attacked" or "attacked anyone". I know she has less than perfect social skills at time. She threw a tantrum at school as she wanted to finish writing her story instead of going to assemby. I also know that her classmates are as much babies as she is.

Although this comment may be slightly off thread I think it is really important as adults to remember that there are some desperately needy children out there who are experiencing horrendous home situations in a lot of cases. We have had difficulties at our school with several kids from difficult home situations whose behaviour is sometimes appalling.How the school balance the needs of those kids with the safety of the other kids and teachers is really tricky. We have had chairs thrown around and kids kicked and hit and whilst the teachers then have to placate the parents of traumatised kids caught up in this,they are not allowed to divulged reasons as to why the behaviour might be happening. These poor kids often behave in a way they have seen modelled by someone in their lives.Sometimes school is the only safe place for them and the only hope of them seeing decent behaviour being modelled. I think restorative justice is good if done properly but I also feel that bad behaviour should also have a consquence.e

Andro I'd say if there has been a fresh incident after the restorative practice was applied then it's probably not working in this case. If it were my child I would want a different approach so that a third incident did not take place. I fully agree that its horrible to see your child on the receiving end of physical behaviour BUT I think OP has sounded pretty OTT in her posts.

I think OP is venting here, where it's safe and anonymous - so that she can be the calm and measured adult in RL. I'm also sure that she's not the only one who's ever lost her cool in a safe place, so that she can deal with the matter in an appropriate manner (my safe place is the gym, I work out the disproportionate on the punchbag or the treadmill so I am the epitome of calm rationale when I meet with the teacher/HT/whoever).

Restorative practice didn't work the first time and now it seems that they've used the same tactic a second time...let's hope that there isn't a third time!

^the calm and measured adult in RL

^Disproportionate emotion

I really should have checked that post.

Why is it horseshit?

Because it didn't work and the same boy attacked the OP's DD again the next day, that's why.

Sounds to me as if the problem really is the ineffective teacher. Our school district does restorative justice and it doesn't mean that here is no punishment. As with many approaches it works well when it is applied well.