To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

Marmite If Janine is upsetting you so much, then disengage. Stop responding to her. Simple.

Ah ok, you asked AIBU, but didn't want anyone to tell you YABU. Fair enough, it would have been easier if you stated that at the start. Sorry my little fiddle upset you so much.

I will Maid, but that natives comment is vile, untrue and makes me seem racist if people don't read the whole thread. It's no different and the effects could be wore than troll hunting. So I defending myself.

You really don't think of the IRA when you think about Ireland?

Well why would she? They're British, albeit unwillingly, after all.

OP- This is an interesting thread, seriously, and I do find the idea of cultural and national identity fascinating, but your constant harping on at one poster is becoming tiresome and a little playground-y.

You started the thread, in AIBU, "well known for its robust responses blah blah" You don't now get to dictate how the thread will go. Janine disagrees with you, so do about half of the other posters on the thread, yet you are only accusing her of being vile and attacking you.

And how you get from quoting what she said ^ up there, to accusing her of making you out to be a racist bigot, is one hell of a leap.

Thanks DrankSangria

So you can make me look racist, but I can't show the example of it, which you asked for? It wasn't the fiddle that was the issue and you know it! But of course you won't apologise for making me out racist will you.

On my phone now so I can't scroll through so easily but to the person who said that the Welsh, Scots and Irish were trying to be victims (or similar): actually, WE ARE.

The English ruling classes systematically eradicated the traditional way of life and made it illegal to speak our languages and to teach our children our culture. Certainly in South Wales, the way of life which had been unchanged for generations was obliterated by the way the English or anglicised landowners took advantage of the natural resources. There are areas near here which are still living with the legacy of that such as Merthyr Tydfil.

Due to the geographical advantage of sharing a landmass with England (I believe) we have recovered better than other peoples the English oppressed but it is real and VERY recent.

I'm not harping, responding to attack Sangria, she has made me look racist which is vile.

I have read the thread. I'm funny like that. I like to read a whole thread and form my own opinions.

Show me exactly where you have been made out to be racist. Because I can't find it.

Again, I didn't attack you. You are confusing 'disagreement' with 'attack'.

but to the person who said that the Welsh, Scots and Irish were trying to be victims (or similar): actually, WE ARE.

Indeed. We endured a famine equal in severity to the Ethiopian famine in the 1980s because it would help clear us out, thereby making the land more productive.

Obviously, events like that shape societies for generations. It's hard not to be a bit nonplussed by people who say "why do you care? You've plenty to eat now".

I think you're right, Maid - Holiday has said she picked up on the wrong poster name.

But I think it's actually that Petula is taking up cudgels on behalf of the oppressed - and Holiday is pointing out that same oppressed would be considered privileged by other oppressed people.

So it wasn't right as an observation on Petula - but bang on as a general comment, IME. I've had similar experiences living across the world.

I cringed for Clare Short when she told Zimbabweans she was a colonial victim just like them because she had Irish roots. Yeah, a victimhood that as well as killing and impoverishing thousands of Irish people also gave her instant access to the centre of same empire, to education, healthcare, and the ability to waltz in at will and become a member of government. Oh, and to move to Zim/Rhodesia and help herself to colonial privileges there had she wished to, right up till 1979.

So, not exactly like being Zimbabwean, then.

She paraphased my comment using the words 'those pesky natives' I think that's racist. I have acknowledged he opinions and that I may have misunderstood what she meant sometimes, I have agreed to disagree with her, I have acknowledge I might annoy her and yet she keeps on at me and only me. Why?

Hah, massive X-post again!

i'm not going to debate the severity of oppression for different nationalities at the hands of the english specifically. it's not my place, i would do better listen to those for whom it's part of their heritage and who are continuing to live with the effects, which will also be of varying degrees

It's difficult to explain why being Scottish matters to me and why I don't feel British.

An earlier post referenced the British legal system - which to me sums it up. There is no British legal system but there is a constant default of British/UK = England. As a Scot, we face this constantly. We have a Church of Scotland, a Scottish education system, a Scottish legal system. We have our own Police, NHS, Fire Brigade, RSSPCA etc etc. Everything is prefaced with Scotland to identify it as distinct from the English, Welsh, NI organisations. Not in a negative way but simply to identify it as being Scottish. It similar for NI. Whereas English organisations and groups don't need to use an indentifier as they are seen as the default.

There was a move recently for the English & Welsh chartered accountancy profession to change RPB name from The Institute of Chartered Accountants of England and Wales to simply The Institute of Chartered Accountants. The Scottish equivalent which is ICAS opposed this. ICAS existed prior to the English & Welsh version and opposed the dropping of the identifier as it implied that the EW version was the default and all other came after. Same with The Football Association - ours is the Scottish Football Association. There are hundreds of other seemingly insignificant examples but it all adds up to English being the default position within the UK.

Growing up with that in the UK has an impact - it doesn't affect my views of the English as individuals at all but it does tend to 'other' the minority nations and that has an impact on how you perceive yourself and others.

I'm all for the English having their own national identity but would argue that the reason that there hasn't been much passion for it is because the English seem to assume that Britain/UK is their identity and is interchangeable. None of the other nations seems to feel this way. If England wishes to self identify as English - great, I fully support that but you don't get to bleat about how unfair it is when you've chosen to take Britain as your identity and conflate it with England. The English did that to themselves, no one else in the British Isles gave it to you

Who with surely?

I have acknowledge I might annoy her and yet she keeps on at me and only me. Why?

I would suggest that the violin comment (for which she has now apologised) upset you and you are now reading things into her comments that aren't intended.

Tell you what. Report her. Let HQ decide.

Because at the moment, I see her (and others) asking you questions to try and find out what you mean, why you feel the way you do, and yes, disagreeing with you, and you saying "wah wah, she's being horrible to me"

Which kind of gets a bit in the way of what could have been an interesting discussion.

I'm all for the English having their own national identity but would argue that the reason that there hasn't been much passion for it is because the English seem to assume that Britain/UK is their identity and is interchangeable.

*I agree with this statement, even though I don't feel like that, English is separate, I think.

No, I'm not legion. I'm livid about the 'pesky natives' thing!

Sangaria, where have wah wahed? Pesky natives, which I have never said is racist and was attributed to my comment. I will report, good idea.

This is verging on MOPEry.

You are definitely though doing what sangria says OP and have dodged several direct questions.