To think 2 1/2 hours is too long in a dirty nappy?

[RandallFloyd]

DS started pre-school this year and is not potty trained at all. Just not ready.

The school handbook thingy says "your child will not be precluded from attending Nursery should they not be toilet trained. In such circumstances a programme/plan will be drawn up between the school and parents as a positive step towards improving the situation".

He was dirty when I picked him up on Monday so yesterday, at drop-off, I asked them what their policy is. I was told they aren't allowed to change them, they have to encourage them to do it themselves. Also that they have to rely on the child telling them they are dirty. I explained that although he does wear pull-ups he wouldn't be able to do that and there is always wipes, nappies and nappy bags in his bag.

She just re-iterated that that's what they have to do, so I asked that if he is dirty again can they ring me and I'll sort him out (I live 5 mins away). Tbh I couldn't think of any other option.

She agreed but I left feeling like I'd asked something really unusual.

I know it's only morning but surely up to 2 1/2 hours is too long in a dirty nappy? Of course he could have only been dirty for 5 minutes, I'll never know, but he was uncomfortable enough that he wouldn't walk home and was quite sore. And a diet nappy stinks, how can they need to wait for the child to tell them?!

Am I being massively pfb? I genuinely want honest opinions.

Randall Yes you can. Preschool is nothing to do with starting school...a preschool place does not guarantee a place at an attached school. Apply as normal. Plenty of children attend private nurseries until reception and don't go to attached preschools.

He does seem to like it though, that's one of the reasons it's such a hard decision.

He seems it have settled in really well and is quite happy to go. My issue is I don't know just how beneficial it actually is for him iyswim. I don't know how much of the 'learning' side of the play he's taking in and I don't feel I can trust the school's observations so I'm in a bit of a quandary.

I don't want to be too reactionary and pull him out straight away if it's something he's benefitting from. On the other hand I don't feel confident that they are physically looking after him properly so if they're not even noticing/caring about a snot encrusted face or a dirty nappy how on earth can I trust them to notice the difference between Echolalia and normal speech?

It just paints an overall picture of lax standards IMO.

But then what's more important, unsettling him to move him somewhere I'll feel happier with or having to fight to change things to improve the place he's already settled in?

I think one of the problems some pre school settings have is that they were set up next to existing primary schools at a time when children had to be toilet trained to attend and so some have very little suitable space for changing/cleaning. The one my children went to would deal with occasional accidents but would leave the dirty nappy in a bag by the door for you to take home as they had no waste disposal facility.

He doesn't have to be 'in education' until the term after he turns 5.

I would take him out and not worry one bit about losing his place, because there are better places for him, than that. You can revaluate anytime.

Well if you think he is happy otherwise you definitely need to call a meeting with the manager and his key worker....and demand that something changes.

Is there another pre-school you could try? One attached to a day nursery rather than a school? DS will be moving up to pre-school at Christmas when he turns three, and we've just started training this month at 2yrs9m, I expect he will still be having the occasional accident when he's in preschool though, as most children do, when they get wrapped up in what they are doing. A pre-school that would allow a child to sit in their own faeces, knowingly, is not somewhere I would leave my child. If you don't want to deal with shit and wee, you shouldn't be working with small children.

Winnebago, it was one crappy (ha!) lsa that refused, her actual class teacher had done it before and happily. They swapped the Lsa's over, we got a lovely one who was happy to change her, and stayed with her for 18 months, so it all worked out brilliantly.

Oh good! Some people don't belong with children! My DD2 told me that she didn't want to go to the toilet when her keyworker was taking a group of them....bt the kw grabbed her hand roughly and dragged her. I had to go in to complain.

Yes, she 'didn't do poo'. I did ask the Head when I met him, armed with paperwork proving his policies were illegal, what she felt the role of an lsa in a reception class WAS, exactly? To help them with their Latin? They're four, there is going to be pee and poo and snot and sick.

Don'tdrink

Why spend your time for possibly weeks, chasing round children who have no idea they need the toilet.

In under 2 weeks my 3 year-old DGC were reliably clean and dry in the day (by a week with No 2.) And they were only left in pullups at night 'just in case', but they were on the whole, dry at night too.

Far less stressful for all concerned. No 2 just needed help with his clothes to get them out of the way, other than that, self-sufficient.

Same here Nanny. Mine were trained at just under 3 when they were ready. So many people start too soon....mine both took about a week because their language was fully "in" and they understood sensations more.

?? This is appalling, for a preschool. I know that primary schools where the kids are 5+ often have a policy of not getting involved in changing children, but surely a preschool, which will have three year olds in it, should deal with nappies?

I would NEVER leave mine in a nappy if it was a dirty one rather than a wet one. How horrible!

If they take non-potty trained kids, they need to change nappies!

I think the ASD may be a little relevant in that i was going to say you could work on getting him to recognise when he had pooped but that may not be so realistic if he has SEN.
As this seems to be possible younger, my DD was under 18m telling us but is not trained at 2.4 (helpful but not fun if they announce it loudly)
At DD nursery i collected her from sat next to her Key worker with a poopy nappy - no comment from her about it, which i thought was awful, they knew i was collecting soon and couldnt be bothered to change it- but to pretend she hadnt noticed

DD started at 3 when they could only go if they were trained. Parents just out their children in pants and said they were changed. All the wet and dirty pants must have been much worse to deal with than nappies.

Anyone who doesn't want their child got go, just keep them home and take them out to meet other children a lot. If you do want them to go, then get a clear plan from pre school.

naty no it's not relevant because OP was not asking for advice on potty training. This could go on and on with a child who has NO issues and all the advice in the world won't make it Ok for the staff to leave him shitty arsed.

We do things differently today. None of that sitting them on a potty for hours. We allow children to learn their needs themselves and take time. Most are done and dusted by 4/5.

Quite.
Disgusting. There is no need for a child to go that long without being potty trained and thank goodness, very few do.

The majority are done by 3 Goblin the only disgusting thing here is YOUR attitude.

That's exactly it, isn't it.
Whatever the rhyme or reason, it can't be ok to leave him sitting in poo.

My gut reaction is to just pull him out of there straight away but I'm conscious of not being too rash.

Plus if he's happy there I don't want to upset to the apple cart and force him to start somewhere new.

But I can't accept that it's ok to not take care of his physical needs.

I think I'm going to give them a chance and ask for a meeting to get things straight. If there's no improvement then I don't think there's any other option than to pull him out.

Disgusting? Charming.

GoblinLittleOwl

There are many reasons why a child might "go that long" without being potty trained. My son is 5 and still in nappies full time, for good reason. Do you consider that disgusting? I hope you aren't a teacher.

GoblinLittleOwl, if I remember rightly, you are the poster who came onto the thread about children starting reception, to state that children wouldn't want to sit next to a child who has defecated in their pants. (I am starting to think you have issues)

I believe you are/were a teacher. You do realise there are children with sn in mainstream schools who may well not be toilet trained for a long time or ever.

In fairness, I doubt any age child would want to sit next to child who has pooed themselves but I somehow doubt the pooer is any happier about it either.

Shaming people, especially children, isn't a particularly productive or humane way to teach them.

I think if he's happy in a pre school setting hed be happy moving to another (nice one) maybe syart looking around now in case nothing changes.

I doubt you will be the first to have the problem, they might have no interest in changing things (sounds like they don't)

I would look for another nursery tbh, they sound uncaring and awful. He is only little and needs assistance fgs, they are so wrong, it's their duty of care to ensure the child is clean. Ds is 2.5 not toilet trained, they chance him regularly at pre school, he's always clean.