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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think 2 1/2 hours is too long in a dirty nappy?

336 replies

RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 09:30

DS started pre-school this year and is not potty trained at all. Just not ready.

The school handbook thingy says "your child will not be precluded from attending Nursery should they not be toilet trained. In such circumstances a programme/plan will be drawn up between the school and parents as a positive step towards improving the situation".

He was dirty when I picked him up on Monday so yesterday, at drop-off, I asked them what their policy is. I was told they aren't allowed to change them, they have to encourage them to do it themselves. Also that they have to rely on the child telling them they are dirty. I explained that although he does wear pull-ups he wouldn't be able to do that and there is always wipes, nappies and nappy bags in his bag.

She just re-iterated that that's what they have to do, so I asked that if he is dirty again can they ring me and I'll sort him out (I live 5 mins away). Tbh I couldn't think of any other option.

She agreed but I left feeling like I'd asked something really unusual.

I know it's only morning but surely up to 2 1/2 hours is too long in a dirty nappy? Of course he could have only been dirty for 5 minutes, I'll never know, but he was uncomfortable enough that he wouldn't walk home and was quite sore. And a diet nappy stinks, how can they need to wait for the child to tell them?!

Am I being massively pfb? I genuinely want honest opinions.

OP posts:
LemonBreeland · 17/09/2014 16:23

THey do sound crap. My DD is toilet trained, and just started nursery. She had a poo accident the other day and was changed. Obviously it's more difficult to leave a child in dirty pants than a nappy. But let's face it a nappy would have been easier for them to change than DDs pants. So I can't see why they can't change a nappy. It is just nonsense.

hufflebottom · 17/09/2014 16:26

Dd was in the process of being toilet trained at pre school and when I went to look round in the toilet/changing area there is a list for what to do if they need to change a nappy...

From telling someone else they are doing it to recording what the change was for.

Aeroflotgirl · 17/09/2014 16:27

Even if they are tt you are dealing with toddlers/preschoolers so there will probably be some accidents. Tgey have to have some facilities to clean them up. If a setting did not have facilities to clean young children, I would not be putting my child there.

Thumbwitch · 17/09/2014 16:29

Gosh, that sounds awful Randall - I can't see that it is at all workable to accept children in nappies and then refuse to change them! :(

DS2 has been left in a pooey nappy for around an hour once, when I had to go out with DS1 and left him in DH's charge - DH was working from home and said that DS2 had poo'd pretty much as soon as I left the house but he wasn't able to change him Hmm so left him until I got home. Poor baby's bum was SO sore! after just an hour, so longer than that would have been much worse. I don't honestly know how anyone could leave it because of the smell, to say nothing of the cruelty factor (sore bottom) - and agree that the nursery are being neglectful, ditto with the snotty nose. :(

And don't worry about him not being ready for potty training - some children just take longer. My Ds1 had no special needs and still wasn't toilet-trained until he was 3.10 - he had no concept of needing a wee. He was in pull-ups for quite a while though, because he would do a poo on the toilet for nearly a year before getting the hang of the wee side of things - but it just took that long to get him ready for being fully toilet trained. Upside was it only took a week and there were very few accidents. He's wet the bed 3 or 4 times since (he's nearly 7 now) and that was only when he wasn't sent to the loo last thing before bed.

Trollsworth · 17/09/2014 16:30

Report that to social services, it's neglect.

BarbarianMum · 17/09/2014 16:35

That's illegal too. They can encourage the child to clean themselves but if it's bad, or if the child can't, they have to help clean and change them. They can have extra policies, procedures and staff to help if needs be but it they have to do it. By law. Or they can go down the route of showing they can't meet a particular child's needs but I've never heard that claimed solely for dirty nappies.

HaroldLloyd · 17/09/2014 16:36

I was told before DS started pre school in September that he would HAVE to be potty trained or else he could wear nappies but I would have to go in and change him.

Luckily he was ready over the summer or I would have had the same issues.

Plus I sent him in with a cold today.

valrhona · 17/09/2014 16:39

I'm in Ireland so things may be a little different.

My daughter turned 3 in the May, and in Sept her "class" from play school/creche graduated up from the toddler room to the pre-school room. She wasn't toilet trained at the time as we'd been abroad for the 6 months and living in a rented place with wall to wall white carpet, plus, disruption etc.

The end result was that she wasn't allowed to "graduate" with her group until she was trained. There was no problem with the staff with her staying in the Toddler group, but the pre-schooler group just don't do nappies. Their day was just ordered differently, and looking back, it wasn't unreasonable.

She trained up pretty quickly as she wanted to re-join her little buddies.

icanmakeyouicecream · 17/09/2014 16:40

That's neglect, and they wouldn't be offering the standard of care I would wish my child to have so I would remove my child from their 'care'.

TheFairyCaravan · 17/09/2014 16:42

Randall it isn't ok not to take care of any child's physical needs at nursery! per-school or school, it really isn't. Any setting worth their salt wouldn't leave a child like it, honestly. If you spoke to OFSTED they would take a very dim view.

My DC were trained early, DS1 wasn't quite 2. It was how it was done back then, but times change. We, also, had to make sure they were clean and dry before they went to pre-school, but when I look back there were quite a few children who regularly came out with a bag of clothes and different outfits to what they went in in.

Who honestly cares if a child is not trained at 3? It is much easier to change a nappy than mop a floor, try to stop a poo escaping as you take them through a room etc! At the end of the day, the care Randall's DS has received has been nothing less than shoddy. If the people working there can't cope with the messes that go alongside little children, then they should go else where for work!

Penguinie · 17/09/2014 16:44

I work in a pre-school, we change nappies all the time.. I think leaving a child in a dirty nappy is possible neglect. I would advise contacting the manager. I would be furious if it were my child.

CromerSutra · 17/09/2014 16:46

This is madness. I work with key stage 1 children in school and would NEVER leave a child like that or demand that they "clean themselves up"! I would take a very dim view of any child care setting that did. Many children are not toilet trained by that age, it's not unusual. Many , much older children have the odd accident. You don't just leave them in discomfort. What a lot of bloody jobs worths!

HaroldLloyd · 17/09/2014 16:46

I think that might be some schools stock answer, they even mentioned delaying him starting to me which would have been really unfair as he is otherwise very much ready to go.

I'd go in Randall.

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 16:49

Exactly! He can't be the first and only child to ever have shat their pants in pre-school can he?!

I'm getting more and more annoyed about this as the day goes on!

How can that be their 'policy'? Encouraging non-toilet trained 3yo's to change their own pull-ups isn't a policy, it's bloody bonkers is what it is.

How many non toilet trained kids can tell you when they're dirty, remove their own clothes, and clean themselves? How many fully toilet trained 3yo's can undress themselves and effectively wipe their own arse?

The most baffling bit though, to me, is why do they have to rely on the child telling them they're dirty. Surely if they can smell it that's enough. Can that really be a policy? To leave a child who stinks to high heaven until they tell someone they've pooed?

OP posts:
HappyAgainOneDay · 17/09/2014 16:53

I am amazed that children of 3 are not potty trained for poo as well as wee. There was a news item with shock expressed, a few weeks ago, about children of 5 being at school still in nappies. The blame was put on the parents for not toilet training them because they probably thought that it was teachers' jobs. What would the children have felt like if they knew that their friends were all in pants but they were not? Humiliated.

As a parent, you should plan, persevere and reward - not wait for the child to start asking for a pot without any teaching about what the pot is for. Do you wait for your child to ask how to write or read? No, you start to instill them into your child (or don't you?) so it can at least write its name and count to 10 before it starts school. They should be able to tie their own shoe laces but some can't so I expect that's why we see so many yoofs with shoe laces trailing on the ground waiting to trip them up.

Yes, I'm having a rant. I expect those whose children are still in nappies at 3, 4, 5 are the sort who don't teach them how to write their name or count or eat with a tool whether it's just a spoon or fork. I cannot believe the ignorance of some parents.

I will say, however, that I do understand and have sympathy with those children who are not physically able to because of medical conditions.

TheFairyCaravan · 17/09/2014 16:53

Ask to see their policies Randall. It seems like a bloody ridiculous policy to me.

Aeroflotgirl · 17/09/2014 16:54

It's because they can't be bothered Randall, red flags imo

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 16:55

X-post again!

I think it is the stock answer, you're right. I'm getting the impression that they were fobbing me off because they just don't want to deal with it.

OP posts:
TheFairyCaravan · 17/09/2014 16:55

I cannot believe the ignorance of some parents.

No, nor me! And you're right up there with the most ignorant HappyAgain!

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 16:57

Blimey, Happy, that's me told.

OP posts:
HappyAgainOneDay · 17/09/2014 16:58

Quotation from ValRhona*

"She trained up pretty quickly as she wanted to re-join her little buddies."

This proves that it can be done if they are given a reason for wearing pants rather than nappies to 'school'.

MrsWinnibago · 17/09/2014 16:59

Happy be amazed all you like. My children were fully trained within ONE week and no accidents at the age of three. That's because I wasn't expecting a tiny toddler to understand potting. I avoided multiple accidents.

PLUS THE OP'S SON IS BEING INVESTIGATED FOR ADDITIONAL NEEDS!!!

Thumbwitch · 17/09/2014 17:00

Nah, not really Randall - TheFairy has that one nailed. Wink

Aeroflotgirl · 17/09/2014 17:00

Happy are you feeling better now after that! So what facts or studies can you give to support your theory! Children are different, they develop in different ways, at 2.5 op ds is still a toddler, not a school aged child! There isent any need for him to be at school until 5 anyway. When they are adults you cannot tell tge difference of who was TT at 18 months, and who was at 3.

TheFairyCaravan · 17/09/2014 17:02

That proves one child can do it Happy. There are many, many reasons why a child might not be toilet trained. We are not all the same, that isn't hard to understand is it?

In the same breath it is incredibly ignorant to say that you should teach your children to write their name, count to ten, eat with a tool, or toe their laces. Some children can't and won't ever be able too! One of the most ignorant people on this thread is you!