Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

grandtheft I haven't read the book, so can't comment. Jeffrey Sachs has got his hands dirty in many countries, establishing currencies and monetary systems, and he spoke cogently enough for me.

Igneo I agree that the argument is idiotic, it's not one I'd ever make, but don't get drawn into responding with the same glib nonsense. There is nothing about the German situation that makes it relevant.

Morris, my grandparents, in their mid 80s, don't need your time machine. They have marched for their cause many times over the years, and are thoroughly depressed to see all their generation built being dismantled, and worse, subverted.

Happy to be the creator of mirth :)

I think that sort of geographical split could easily happen.

Vote cast. Now the long wait begins

SC hope you got some rest. I woke up about 3 times last night with a knot in my stomach.

I'm supposed to be working today, with a deadline next week, but have the attention span of a gnat. Luckily my English client is very understanding.

Going to need a new thread, again, shortly.

Rooty, would you like to take your kids back to the 1950s? The NHS is free at point of use. Schools are wildly better now than they were even when I was a lass in the 1970s. We used to have outside toilets. Social progress has continued apace, women can get mortgages and everything. Gay people can marry. Single mothers can keep their babies and raise them themselves.

Meanwhile we've all got materially much wealthier. Most of us own technology that would have excited James Bond thirty years ago. Kids use computers every day at school. I grew up with three TV channels, all of which switched off at midnight.

I didn't travel abroad until I was 20. Now airlines offer flights all over Europe for the price of a weeks groceries.

I hate the Tories, I want them out as much as you do. But life is better now in every possible demonstrable way.

But life is better now in every possible demonstrable way.

Do you by any chance own your own home?

New thread is ready for us

So voting Yes will take us back to the 1950s?

Now that is a desperate argument.

I own my home Rootypig -I bought it two months ago. Doesn't mean that I don't understand the realities of renting.

No DD that's not what Morris is saying ! RTFT

My mum was born in the 50s, to a lower middle class father and a working class mother. Would I take her life for my DD? yes, in a heartbeat. She was born in Nigeria where my grandfather worked at a university (agricultural engineer). Went to a comp in England. Uni on a grant. Got pregnant with my sister accidentally, but was able to choose to have her out of wedlock, finished her degree (with the state's financial support), trained as a teacher, bought the house we were all brought up in. Worked in the state sector all her life (and still does), ended up in.... Scotland. Is in her mid 50s, in excellent health.

Yeah, I'd take her life for my DD.

Good morning to all of you, just wanted to wish you a peaceful polling day.

I voted about an hour ago after blood test, and it wasn't busy in a mobbed sense, but a steady flow of voters which is brilliant news. I did have a little panic though when I walked out the polling station but I thought I'd crossed the wrong box!

DH assures me the top box was Yes though! Phew

So rooty can I just check, because my brain cells are not at their sharpest this morning, but you are voting Yes because you hope for a 1950s lifestyle for your DD?

Oh and there was no riots, but I have heard that Cairneyhill Polling station may have violated the referendum voting regulations.

You're safe Irnbru. Unless I voted the wrong way too. In which case we cancelled each other out!

Ha Freddie I'm not voting at all, I'm thousands of miles away, I don't get a vote. My immediate family do. My DD won't be Scottish, or live in the 1950s, more's the pity

The 50s argument was about whether the UK has been going in the wrong direction these past years. I think it has, beyond question.

Ajandjj

Indeed, look at what's going on in Ukraine. Kind of an opposite situation, where Russia is annexing Ukraine rather than wanting a split, but it is a credit to both sides that the arguments here have generally remained verbal and intellectual. In Ukraine it is neighbour on neighbour. Grim.

In Scotland any bad feeling will hopefully be washed away with Auld Lang Syne at new year.

Rooty your mum was obviously very bright. University and further education used to be for a minority of people. Now, the majority of young people are expected to attend further education and supporting them all is not at all the same financial proposition it was back then. I was one of the last to receive a grant for university and I know I'm lucky. But when the whole point of further education shifts, so must our attitude towards paying for it.

well thank fuck for that - you do realise we cannot return to the 1950s?

sorry, that to rooty

Yes rooty what are you talking about? Do you think WM is going to abolish the NHS?

On Channel 4 News last night, a Yes - voter made a speech about why she was voting yes. She used "social justice" and "egalitarian society".

The Yes campaign haven't promised egalitarianism have they?!

I know they've used terms like fairer and just but that doesn't mean equal(particularly in a monetary sense). I wonder how much conflation of these concepts has occured?