Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

And so to bed. Just over 24 hours until the first results are due in! Good luck all, have a safe and rewarding day tomorrow.

Sorry for huge post with all my opinions on stuff discussed over the las couple of hours... I catch up with the reading and post and find the whole thing has moved on again.

That list posted with the estimated times for results? That's made me go all tingly! Glasgow 2nd last - I've no nails as it is, I'll be gnawing on bone by the time that result is in.

I'm actually feeling quite positive about things, whatever the result. There's been a seismic shift needed for a long time in this country (UK) and whether it's yes or no, this referendum is shaping up to be the catalyst for that shift. As someone who has been jaded by politics/politicians since new labour spin infected the discourse of the debate, I'm amazed and hugely encouraged by this whole process.

I do wonder if the estimates are taking into account the higher expected turnout, rather than when they usually declare? But then the counting might go faster because of there only being two options.

When I said I'd go for dual citizenship above, I was particularly thinking about wanting to renew my lapsed British Passport... I don't think I'd rush out to get a Scottish one.

spiritedwolf poor you re the dentist. I hope it goes well x

If everywhere but Glasgow votes no, can we tell them to go it alone as a city state?

Yeah - why not

IF it's a yes, I suppose you will just have to wait and see how strongly you both feel post referendum? Then of course if you can afford to do it. If you own your house - if it can sell for enough or indeed sell at all. I think the market might end up a bit flooded :(

Emotionally... I feel that Scotland hasn't really thought about what it is giving up. I was in London a couple of weeks ago (first time in years, I don't travel much) and in Devon visiting family. I loved it. I love being part of the same country. London is my capital city just as much as Edinburgh is, I'd hate to be forced to give it up. It feels like it belongs to me, our elected representatives sit there, and it's an amazing place. My sister has recently moved there to live and she loves it

I don't think they have either. I think it's all Alex Salmond and his small crew wanting the glory and it's heartbreaking. No thought to breaking up a Union that 60 millionish want, and possibly all on 1 vote. I honestly think so many of them are so wound up Freedom Fighting that they haven't thought about what they are losing :(

If it happens, I will miss Scotland being part of US ALL too - but it's even worse for you as you'd be the 'little bit' being chopped off against your will. I am still utterly flabbergasted that it has got this far on such little concrete evidence of viability and worse still potentially on 1 vote.

On the flag, practically I can't see it changing. The UK has had it for so long I think it will want to keep it and it's used in the corner of many other countries flags

I hope you are right. There have been some abominations suggested :( and even if the new ones were fab, I'd want to keep the Union Flag but at the same time it feels a bit wrong to do so when we wouldn't all still be in that union. Don't know, I'm conflicted.

If he had forty bottles of whisky for you to try I actually wonder whether he was a true whisky man Latte although I would probably have offered to help to convert him if not. Most real whisky men I know would have one or two bottles but very good ones and stick to those. (I suppose that most Earls might have one or two distilleries!)

It sounds to me as if he ordered a good few bottles form his wine merchant for his guests and you got pot luck and drinking your way through forty over two nights isn't such a good idea for the taste buds (Or in fact the body so I'm surprised you were still able to get to your bed.)

Tomorrow night I shall be drinking a Speyside whisky for sentimental reasons but I'm a peat girl at heart.

(Whisky promotion over.)

Still no comment from Yes on Salmond's attempt to coerce the Principal of St. Andrew's University?

NC & OneNight

I am willing to be converted

Yes it was an interesting couple of nights. A beautiful room in a castle, with bottles and decanters and a few interesting people... the Earl was lovely too, very down to earth and showed me around the 'family' part of the castle. All quite surreal looking back

squoosh - did you mention polls?

spirited nothing wrong with your post at all :)

Though posting it in separate bits would help us to get to 1000 quicker so we can start on thread 14 for the opening of the polls :)

wheels are you a Yes (sorry I can't keep up with everyone!) what do you think the outcome will be? Seriously?

I recall many years ago being in a bar in Edinburgh with an Englishman who was refused a drink. (I think there was a previous post on this topic.) His sin however was not in being English because the elderly barman couldn't have cared less about that. No his sin was that he ordered a quite exceptionally fine malt 'on the rocks'. The barman was utterly correct to refuse to give him the drink!

I have just read a depressing headline.

How the fate of the UK will be decided by 350,000 people who can't make their minds up

So true and so depressing. HOW HOW HOW did any of us let this happen?

Because 'ordinary' people weren't engaging in politics I would judge so that those who were prepared to do a bit of work in the area took charge of things and set the course.

Re-engagement in the political process may be the great or indeed only success of this business and it will probably be throughout the UK because many people who were not previously that active in matters which affect their lives have received one hell of a wake up call.

OneNight - he was lovely and very knowledgeable. He keeps a wide variety for guests, he had his blend/favourite, but he could speak about all of them depending on what each of us wanted to try & he suggested some. I may or may not have been just a little distracted by his biceps and good looks We were only trying wee sips, but could have had a proper glass if we'd found one we particularly liked. Fortunately the beds weren't too far away

Did the Englishman look somewhat puzzled or did he realise the error of his ways?

Phaedra - I think not my friend, though it's not for want of trying. Maybe tomorrow!

onenight - it was a rhetorical question really. I have held my hands up to being one of the ones who wasn't engaged - I was fed up of the grey suits being 'as bad as one another' and not feeling like my vote counted for jack shit.

I'm 'undecided' latte. Until I get my ballot in front of me, I honestly don't know which way I'll go when I vote. I've lost count of the number of times I've thought I'd finally decided which box to put my 'x' in. I think I'm at ease with that as I can see huge possibility whichever way this goes. I'm not buying into the hysteria, euphoria or doom & gloom on either side because I think I recognise a huge political awakening which I hope can be harnessed for the better, for the whole of the UK.

And now you know that while your individual vote may seem a small thing that your engagement in framing policy could be even more important to you, your family and your community?

(I'm not sure how puzzled he was because I had to leave the bar quickly through sheer embarrassment.)

wheels that's interesting :) I wonder what will swing you - what you will choose?! Not long to go now - just over 20 hours and that will be that. Either way.

...in the White Paper the Scottish Government announced that it ‘will invite representatives from the other parties in the Scottish Parliament, together with representatives of Scottish civic society, to join the Government in negotiating the independence settlement.’ (para 2.7)

The thing is onenight even if I had been paying more attention - what exactly could I have done that would have made any difference?

The first time I voted was the 1979 referndum (No) I have never not voted in any election. I even vote in local authority by-elections.

I'm actually not that impressed by this apparent surge in political engagement by the " previously couldn't be bothered " brigade.

To be honest it's pretty depressing to think they might swing it.

Phaedra are you talking about me?

Latte this late in the day all I would say if you're not 99% sure go for No. I can't imagine how anyone could go for Yes if they doubted it was right.

I've always preferred my whisky neat. Is that allowed?