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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 08:42

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

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HamishBamish · 18/09/2014 07:49

Vote cast, now just a matter of waiting.

I wish campaigners were made to stay away from polling stations. It feels quite intimidating to have to walk through them all to case your vote. They were silent though. Is that a rule?

SapphireMoon · 18/09/2014 07:50

A secret ballot is a secret for good reason Combust.
You don't have to tell anyone what you vote.
Your reasons may be quite different from your DH even if you end up voting the same way.
Have a good day.

rootypig · 18/09/2014 07:54

If in doubt surely a 'No' vote the way to go?

There is plenty of uncertainty in a no vote, believe me. Just look at the last 6 years. Look at what the coalition has done to the NHS in four short years.

The future is never certain, but we have some damn good indicators of the direction the UK is going in.

frankie80 · 18/09/2014 07:58

saw this on facebook "of all the countries who got independence, not one has asked to reverse it"

That's cos they wouldn't able to!

Honestly, some people make me want to scream.

Solopower1 · 18/09/2014 07:59

Frankie, I don't think the questions that most people want to ask can be answered, since there are no 'facts' about the future. All we can do is think what is most likely, based on what we know about human nature.

The Yes people say we will have a certain sort of country if we get independence, but everyone seems to have a different idea of what they want. In any case, just wanting something to happen in a certain way doesn't mean that it will. It's all hopes and promises, wishes and guesses - nothing concrete.

Meanwhile the big company bosses are trying to bully us into staying, by threatening to leave, and it's all threats and sabre-rattling.

I wish both sides would be more honest and less manipulative, but since they won't, you just have to think about what you think is best for the country and work backwards from there.

For example, my experience and my take on history seem to show me that when oppressed people join together they become very powerful (which is why I want the Scottish and rUK working people to be mutually supportive, and I'm in favour of the Union). But in the moment of victory, the one clear voice urging one clear path becomes broken up by lots of voices, all wanting a share of the action. The result always changes from what people thought they were fighting for in the first place, and usually moves through several stages, some of them violent, before an acceptable resolution can be found. I don't want to have to go through that, and I think working people should save our energy and direct our anger at the Westminster government, and work for a better life for all the people in the UK. I think we can have our cake and eat it.

Btw, I'm not suggesting that there will be violence post Referendum, and I do think we will be alright in the end, but whatever the result, there will be a lot of changes. Let's hope they will be for the better.

frankie80 · 18/09/2014 08:01

I've never felt more sick in my life, envisioning all the gloating on Facebook and the backlash.

Luckytwo · 18/09/2014 08:02

Whatever happens today, I just hope the country recovers...and quickly.
I don't think a no vote will end uncertainty, how can it. Whichever way it goes it is looking like nearly 50% will be unhappy.
I expect if there is a no vote, the independence debate will continue so it won't be put to bed.
And if the WM govt fail to deliver any decent new powers, god help us all, and that will fuel the debate in rUK going into the next election.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 08:02

Rootypig

The SNP government have cut NHS spending in Scotland despite having smaller overall budget cuts than England. Westminster has increased NHS England spending.

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rootypig · 18/09/2014 08:03

I'm not talking about spending.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 08:03

Same here frankie80. There are some people who I have really lost respect for over this - not because of what they are voting but because of how they have behaved in the run up to it.

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DontDrinkAndFacebook · 18/09/2014 08:05

Yes but at least with a no vote if things continue to be shit, or get more shit, you can still blame the English. What will you do when we are gone? Grin

DaughterDilemma · 18/09/2014 08:05

If you want business as usual you will have it with a No vote. Scotland will remain secondary to the UK and at the mercy of its economic strategies.

You decide.

PhaedraIsMyName · 18/09/2014 08:05

so, a question for the No voters: Do you not see any need or desire for independence at all at any point in the future, or it is that you would like to see independence one day but you do not believe Scotland is ready for it now/yet?

Absolutely none. What you don't understand is the UK is my country.

SapphireMoon · 18/09/2014 08:07

It will not be business as usual with a No vote.

rootypig · 18/09/2014 08:08

Yes it will, just another version of rapacious advanced capitalism.

SurelyYoureJokingMrFeynman · 18/09/2014 08:08

Thinking of you all in Scotland today, and after today.

However it goes, wishing you all the best for making it work.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 08:09

Well they haven't done anything to the Scottish NHS, cos it's devolved. The SNP on the other hand, have dramatically increased the spending on privatised services including giving a contract to weight watchers, a private american owned company, to give weight loss advice instead of proper NHS dieticians.

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PhaedraIsMyName · 18/09/2014 08:09

rootypig Presumably you missed the front page story on the leaked memo on health spending cuts by Holyrood?

Which the SNP described as " not cuts, efficiency savings" or " just a discussion paper " or " not true"

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 08:13

It will not be business as usual with a no. And it won't be some versoin of wonderful socialist utopia with a Yes. Cutting corporation tax is not socialist. Refusing to increase top rate of income tax, not socialist. Bringing out billionaires to support your campaign - not socialist.

We will need to make massive cuts to support the reserve build up for their currency plans. Far, far bigger than the cuts than anything the Tories propose, because even if their spending plans were followed by an independent Scotland we#d still have a deficit. And you can't build reserves from a deficit.

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unlucky83 · 18/09/2014 08:13

My DP (French - lived here for 14 yrs) and never particularly interested in politics before has told me the French media are reporting a Yes result will be a catastrophe. He believes the French media as they have nothing to gain or lose.

He said he always said Scotland was one of the best and safest countries in the world to live in. Why spoil that? (Found myself arguing the case for Yes Confused)
He also wanted to go and get all his money out of the bank today - just in case, to keep it safe. Took lots of persuasion that is safe at the moment (covered by the FSCS guarantee up to £85k ) until Independence day and if necessary we will have moved it (and maybe us?) before then...

rootypig · 18/09/2014 08:15

Not talking about spending, nor cuts.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 08:15

You're right unlucky, the FSCS will still cover us if it's a Yes until "independence day"

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StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 08:17

So what are you talking about then Rootypig? It's not spending, it's not cuts, it shouldn't be the recent bill allowing the use of private providers since that only applies down south not to the Scottish NHS which is fully devolved. So what are you referring to?

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ajandjjmum · 18/09/2014 08:17

I feel sink and I have no link to Scotland - other than being a fellow Brit.

Staggered to see on the news last night that about 20% of the votes were postal, so had been placed ages ago.

ajandjjmum · 18/09/2014 08:18

*sick - but then again, maybe sink is quite appropriate too!