Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

Well - either way.

I was a small child in 1979.

I have voted in every election since I was 18 that I was in the country for and when I lived overseas I voted there. I think I have voted in all of the local authority ones, but may have missed one or two.

So please don't lump me in with the 'previously couldn't be bothered' lot.

I agree, I could have taken more notice of the referendum, but I have explained why I didn't in other posts.

phaedra

What are you on about?

For a start as I have said in 100's of posts I am in England so don't get a vote.

Secondly I am a very very vocal NO.

I have no idea what you are on about.

No. I was talking generally. I don't understand why people don't vote. I used to work with someone who at the age of 60 had never voted.

And I do mean literally never voted. Wilson, Heath, Foot, Kinnock, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Scottish Parliament, all the same and all irrelevant as far as she was concerned. I've lost touch with her so don't know if she's voting now.

She was a legal secretary all her working life. I can't comprehend how she could so disengage herself from what is going on around her.

Latte I wasn't referring to anyone in particular.

Latte sorry I'm losing track of who is who. My comment about non voters is not aimed at any one in particular. I am not convinced that once this is over the level of engagement will be sustained.

Just came on to say this really...

Phaedra

You posted about people not voting almost straight after my post saying I wasn't as engaged as I possibly should have been!

Then you assumed I was confused about what to vote?!

Then you told me how I should vote.

You directed your comment to me - telling me what to vote and that I would be stupid to do anything else?!

Latte this late in the day all I would say if you're not 99% sure go for No. I can't imagine how anyone could go for Yes if they doubted it was right

I don't really get why you have jumped down my throat, but there you go. I don't want to argue with you, we are both on the same side, both saying NO and both not understanding why people don't vote

It's 2am, I'm going to have a shot at sleeping!

Only 117 posts before the thread is full and we can start 14 - Polling Day. So middle of the night crew, get posting

Well that was pointless... where are you all?

Trying to sleep?

I'm afraid that poster calling for us to "Be excellent" isn't helpful. I have not enjoyed the last few weeks. I wish it wasn't happening and to be honest I can't see myself just shrugging my shoulders and going "oh well never mind"

Yes I was trying to sleep - I assume most of the others are too.

I have to say ODFOD was my instant reaction! Then I thought - are they on a wind up or are they genuinely trying to get people to 'be nice' to each other? I couldn't decide and couldn't be arsed doing an advanced search so went with 'ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore'

Turned the TV on when I came back in the lounge, to hear about the averted terror attack in Australia. Over 800 police involved - lots of arrests. Apparently only just caught in time - their intention was to behead a random member of the public

I feel that Cameron and 'The English' generally, are playing it incredibly badly, to the point of putting a wedge in between Scotland and England, even in the minds of right thinking folk.

What everyone seems to fail to understand is how stubbornly proud Scotland is. If everyone down south sort of pats our metaphorical head and says 'yes, yes, now run along and stop being so silly...' everyone will end up voting Yes, just to get them to fcuk off!

inkanta what specifically do you think Cameron and 'The English' are doing wrong & what do you think Cameron should be doing? Given I am English, what do you think I should be doing?

The more I observe the behaviour and hear the rhetoric of the yes voters the more I am convinced there is going to be some civil unrest and some violence towards the No voters if they win.

And I am becoming increasingly sure that the No voters will win.

It will be very close indeed but all the polls show the No votes as being very slightly ahead. The 'not sures' will probably, by the very nature of being 'not sure' urge on the side of caution and vote No, or abstain.

DontDrink I can't see there not being a lot of trouble tomorrow/Friday/the weekend :(

Apparently 97% of people eligible to vote have registered. I wonder what the turn out will be? Mind you, that might not be a true 97% because I've heard quite a lot of people have more than one registration and people have registered children that are too young to vote. One area had something like 127 more 'youth' registrations than they 'should' have had in that area?!.

I wonder if it will be possible for people to vote more than once or for a young teenager to go in and vote for children that are too young iyswim sorry it's late.

The BBC are getting it wrong as well and seems there will be an enquiry into the their conduct. It's a shame to think that it isn't a bastion of journalistic integrity and impartiality. We laugh at Fox News et al and I have always thought of the BBC as a good place to find out the 'truth' about various news stories. Hmm.

Maybe the BBC are pissed off that in a few weeks they'll lose the Scottish licence fees.

LatteLover I think the correct way to hold the union together, would be to acknowledge that Scotland is valuable and does contribute and explain that they want to keep that. The government should get a little better at understanding the psychology of the people.

There's a side of me that wants them to win, just to see what happens. The more scaremongering that comes from down South, the more Salmond starts to look like a plausible answer.

You won't scare the Scots into voting No. You'll have to complement them into it. And that's what's going wrong right now, IMO.

Don't forget - Vote Early. Vote Often.

"The English" have been trying pretty hard to keep out of it. Even to the extent that the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition weren't involved until the last couple of weeks.

I have a question about the BBC and the media for the Yes voters Inkata

Firstly should point out I am English and do not live in Scotland. Why are the BBC being accused of bias and dirty tricks by the Yes voters? In fact the (British) media as a whole seems to be accused of bias. I saw a woman on Sky news last night saying that 'the media' had behaved disgustingly and she seemed genuinely distressed by it. Surely almost all newspapers and news agencies have a political bias even if they deny it, we all know which newspapers lean which way, there must be plenty of pro-YES media in Scotland so why does she think they all have it in for the Yes campaign, and what has been happening to make her feel that way?

Also, a question for the No voters: Do you not see any need or desire for independence at all at any point in the future, or it is that you would like to see independence one day but you do not believe Scotland is ready for it now/yet? Are your thought processes driven purely by practicalities, eg., defence, financial security and stability, or is there a genuine wish to stay linked to the rest of the UK for reasons of culture, history, friendship etc.?

It has been almost 50 years since I lived in the UK. In my ex-pat view, independence will be good for both countries, eventually.

Scotland will suffer in the short run, but the Scots have a world-wide reputation for being industrious and resourceful. Maybe I should say "canny".

I think that the UK has gone badly astray in the last couple of generations. It desperately needs a kick in the backside, and a kick the magnitude of a yes vote might... might.. put the UK back on the right track. Then again, it might not, but without radical change the UK will continue on its downward slide.

'The English' have not really taken much notice until they realised this actually might happen. And the 'vow' by the three parties smacks of desperation.

I am one of those who have been swayed from the No camp to the Yes camp fairly late on partly because the No campaign has been so uninspiring but partly because I am angry at being told by Westminster politicians that we are unable to manage without them.

As a community nurse I have seen first hand the effects that the austerity measures have had on the most vulnerable in our society while London gets ever more bloated and no-one does anything to chase up big companies who owe millions in corporate tax.

But what really tipped me over the edge was IDS on Question Time being pulled up for charging a £39 breakfast to expenses, i know MP's from all sides have been involved in expenses fraud, but somehow the fact that this man (who has caused so much anxiety and misery to some of my patients with his policies) can charge £39 for a breakfast when that would feed some people for a week. Well that was my tipping point.

Just popping back to the thread. I've done a lot of lurking recently, but everything important has been said.

It's just that something struck me on Saturday. This Referendum has thrown up some odd alliances and caused some puzzling divisions.

As I was walking up from Waverley station, I had to cross a massive Orange march in favour of Scotland staying in the Union. It felt incredibly provocative. The drums were deafening, the people's faces were scary - full of nationalistic, patriotic fervour - I can't describe it, really, but it felt very threatening. I am on the same side as them and I should have felt grateful and supported, but I felt threatened because this sort of fanaticism is terrifying.

This Referendum has put one of my sons on the opposite side to the rest of us. If this were the Spanish Civil War my sons would be in armies fighting each other. My younger son would be away with the revolutionary socialists, hiding out in empty houses, learning to kill without compassion and offering up his precious life for an idea.

Luckily we aren't in a civil war - feel free to laugh at how exaggerated my fears are.

I don’t want to be on the side of the Ulster Unionists or the bankers or the bosses of the multi-national supermarkets, or in bed with the dreaded Tories! On the other hand, my son is fighting for the same things as another group of bigoted nationalists and xenophobes - with youthful idealists and manipulative politicians on both sides. How did this happen? We both want more democracy, greater social justice, a state NHS, responsible foreign policies, an end to the Tories. How come we have been divided in this way?

Luckily, on the other hand, of course, the vast majority of people on both sides have no other agenda. They are thoughtful, well-meaning and deeply sincere in their desire to improve people's lives. So I don't think the lunatics will be taking over the asylum just yet, whatever the result.

All the people who sincerely want a better life for the majority need to put that first, imo, above the less important issue of independence. Working people in Scotland and England are not going to get rid of the Tories or achieve greater fairness by fighting each other. They need to focus their anger on the government, and above all, they need to use their votes in the next election. Let's hope that the cause of greater democracy has been served in some way by this Referendum.