Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

OK - so no actual detailed economic figures, just SNP rhetoric Numanoid?

I'm getting very annoyed with the implication that being a yes voter somehow makes you more Scottish.

The NHS is free at the point of delivery. In Ireland, often cited as an example of successful independence, you pay for a GP appointment. There is a real commitment to the NHS across the UK. Salmond's arguments are just to scare people and to play to people's fears. Honestly, I just do not see us having to pay for appointments, whoever is in government, Yes or No. There is just no chance politicians would get away with it.

"Haggis, heaps and tatties on the menu for Thursday"

Surely that was a typo..isn't it neeps and tatties?

Realise I hadn't quite answered the "lender of last resort" bit.

Basically, the organisation with the power to issue currency (ie, BoE, ECB, Reserve Bank of NZ & so on) can literally create money out of nothing. This can cause hyper-inflation and there are many examples of this through history. The BoE did this during the GFC, but did it by providing the money directly to the banks. This meant (and I'm not an economist) that the money didn't go directly into circulation and risk inflation: instead it allowed the banks to repair their balance sheets. A free hand out to the banks, if you like, but one with the pragmatic aim of putting them back in a position so that they would start lending again.

It stopped the UK economy from going into meltdown, but it has also increased the UK state's debt hugely. So you will see why there wouldn't be much appetite for doing the same for a foreign country's banks.

statistically

Interesting. Hadn't spotted that.

I'm going to have a party in my head. Keep it to myself.

But Numanoid Yes can't promise you that either.

On the other hand you can look at the track of WM on the NHS. it survived Thatcher and I really can't see any UK government abolishing the NHS.

Also what do you mean by privatised? If services are provided by the private sector but are free at the point of delivery I'm not convinced it matters. Eck has awarded contracts for details of services.

Didn't the Institute of Fiscal Studies show recently that the SNP have witheld money meant for the NHS - and that an NHS in an inde Scotland would be worse off?

I'd vote no even if I thought Scotland would be more prosperous on its own. I was brought up to share. except for chocolate; it's off limits

Partly because I feel at least as british as Scottish. Partly because we share the same small landmass so it makes sense. Partly because we have so much in common with rUK. Partly because we're so entwined. Partly because I think negotiating our separation is such a waste of time and effort when there are so many more pressing issues we could be spending our energies on. Partly because I don't like the idea of being such a small country - we only have two major cities for example. Partly because I feel that separating feels like a backwards thing to do - to be competing instead of co-operating.

If a large majority of Scottish people wanted independence, I'd be very sad, but it would be easier than the prospect of going independent despite almost half the electorate not wanting it.

When I said I was looking forward to having the result of the ref I just meant that the polls are so close I'll be glad to have the campaigning over and be able to get on with the next stage (though I think it could be very messy).

fontella - I haven't discussed the ref with any of my neighbours and there are no stickers up at my end of the street. I'm going to leaflet tonight under cover of dark! The relations and friends I've discussed it with are horrified at the prospect of a yes vote. I think we're in a bit of shock about it. I'm very glad DH and I are like-minded. The day of the poll that put the yes vote in the lead I felt downright depressed and was glad of DH's hopeful predictions of the no campaign being more determined as a result and his optimism about still getting a majority no vote.

I feel for those long time SNP supporters who have wanted independence for a very long time though, and now appear to be very close to getting it, but hopefully won't.....

I've never been involved in any political 'stuff' before - other than voting in elections of course. I'm not cut out for it - I have a very soft, girly voice and a timid manner. I spend half my life saying 'sorry' (eg if someone bumps into me ) and 'thank you very much'. Definitely,not a natural politician. But reading, following the debates here and on the media, following news coverage and googling some of the legal and historical aspects and occasional statistics has been very interesting.

Also, I have zero sense of direction. I was hoping I wouldn't be asked to do certain streets as I should know where they are, but don't. It struck me that the co-ordinators today are two (very confident, young) men and most of the hoofers were women. But that's a matter for a different thread I suppose.

Partly because I feel at least as british as Scottish. Partly because we share the same small landmass so it makes sense. Partly because we have so much in common with rUK. Partly because we're so entwined. Partly because I think negotiating our separation is such a waste of time and effort when there are so many more pressing issues we could be spending our energies on. Partly because I don't like the idea of being such a small country - we only have two major cities for example. Partly because I feel that separating feels like a backwards thing to do - to be competing instead of co-operating

^ This. Absolutely this.

I think any sort of party on Friday, from either side, would be in very bad taste.

Come now Brontolo, you're not a real Scot, you can't be patriotic, or a proud Scot, if you don't vote yes. Haven't all these threads taught you anything? headdesk

Reading on FB today apparently I should be too ashamed to ever sing Flower of ruddy Scotland again, too - WTAF?!

at heaps as an autocorrect for neeps!

Yeah, you're hilarious Team

I didn't think for a moment that a member of TeamScotland would get the national dish wrong. I've had more than a few auto-corrects myself :)

*unfortunate auto corrects, I should say.

Numanoid, are you aware that the SNP government have cut NHS spendin?. It's increased in England. And because of the vagaries of Barnett we've had a smaller share of cuts

Did you see my post about the scale of the cuts we'd need. The tories will look like fluffy bunnies compared to what we would have to do.

Here's the breakdown of the areas money is spent in Scotland. Now, lets say we go for sterlingisation and need to be running a 5-10% surplus. latest figures suggest we're -£15billion just now. For ease of calculation lets say that's billion.

Where would it come from without hurting the NHS or benefits

Almost as funny as you sir

Oh you misunderstand me - I wasn't being funny, I was insulting you. Nuances aren't your thing, are they.

Thank you for your posts toad

Arf

I've said it before SirChenjin, but I'm not, and never will be, an SNP voter. If it matters any, my vote is for the Green Party (although I know they won't ever be in power).

I'm at work right now, but can later give you a detailed list if you want one, with separate points.

It's too early in the season for neeps - swedes. Wait till we've had a few good frosts.

off-topic but someone had to say it

I feel very sorry for anyone in fear of their job in the event of a yes majority. I would hate to move further south as my family and ILs almost all live in the north of Scotland. And DS is at a critical stage of his education. I know I'm not the only one. What a horrible situation to be in.

Also what do you mean by privatised? If services are provided by the private sector but are free at the point of delivery I'm not convinced it matters. Eck has awarded contracts for details of services

I wouldn't mind too much if services were privatised, but we, as patients, didn't have to pay. For the prescriptions and hospital services I need, I couldn't afford some of the proposed charges I've seen. The idea of free healthcare being in the written constitution of iScotland appeals to me. I worry that WM can, if they wish, choose to charge for services akin to the charges imposed by the US for healthcare.

I didn't see your other post Statistically but I will have a look. I do need to sit down with figures and concentrate on them, making sense of maths and figures doesn't come easily to me, but I can work it out after reading it through. I will definitely do that when I'm not at work and post then. :)