Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

Unless we agree some form of currency union then yes. That's why we would need to build reserves of our own (significant beyond what our share of the BoE reserves would be. Which would require a surplus t obuild the reserves and hence massive cuts.

xposted whitebits - must be tough when your other half is very strongly decided!

SirChenjin, she had the restraining order removed once I threatened to buy up Mandor's entire stock of sequins.

She's a cheap date, is JB

Aye, she doesn't eat much

squoosh SirChenjin

journalist my arse!

Honestly I don't know who gets up my nose more, her or Ms Sturgeon .
I'm honestly not being snobby here -
I am fond of a steak bake myself and the staff in my local Greggs have always been smart, friendly and helpful, but, whilst I would trust Ms Sturgeon to serve me a steak bake I don't trust her to take iScotland into it's brave new world and negotiate with EU etc.

When I see the (comedy double act) of Eck and Ms S, the line:
'say aye to a pie' comes to mind, with wee Eck trotting into Greggs for a Scotch Pie and Nicola in her fresh pinny behind the counter'.

The thought they may be 'in charge' after Friday makes me want to weep.

Sorry to lower the tone to personal comments. I know it doesn't behove me, or add anything intelligent to the discussion. Ms Sturgeon clearly is sharp if not 'smart' and has progressed to the top of her party which is a real achievement but her sneery 'I know something you don't know' approach is unpleasant.

I have to say I find the smug double act of ShineyDave and that vile Gideon Osbourne equally repulsive (and I visualise them in top hats denying a penny to a starving waif in a Victorian engraving of a scene of destitution, a la Hogarth's 'Gin Lane)
so my mental 'picture' of Eck and S is not an antiscottish thing at all. The fact that Shiney and Gideon also claim to represent me also makes me want to weep.

Alan Greenspan has spoken out on independence

www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a92b9936-3ac7-11e4-bd08-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3DPA8HNSU

"Mr Greenspan, former chairman of the US Federal Reserve, said the economic consequences of independence would be “surprisingly negative for Scotland, more so than the Nationalist party is in any way communicating”.

“Their [nationalist] forecasts are so implausible they really should be dismissed out of hand,” said the normally circumspect Mr Greenspan, noting the pace of decline in North Sea oil production.

Despite Nationalist claims to the contrary, he said there was no chance of London agreeing to a currency union. Differing fiscal policies would also cause any Scottish attempt at using the pound regardless to “break apart very quickly”. “There’s no conceivable, credible way the Bank of England is going to sit there as a lender of last resort to a new Scotland,” said Mr Greenspan.

Long time lurker on these threads and I'd like to thank everyone's contribution on the debate, especially those that are providing factual information. I had set my mind on listening to both sides of the arguments but it's these threads that have crystallised and articulated my gut feeling against independance. There is so little evidence at this late stage that Scotland has the ability to claim the economic independance that would make this vision of a fair, just and prosperous society work.

Kudos to the Yes campaign for their grass roots support and certainly in the area that I live there are 10 Yes poster for every No Thanks signs. However, a trip on the train today for a meeting has shown that everyone is talking about the referendum and every person I spoke to can't wait for it to be over and all are voting no. Most of my friends and family feel this way too. It's been on my mind for months but now at the final hurdle it's all I can think about. I'm feeling really angry that on Friday, my country, my culture, my heritage and financial security might be taken away from me and I think that other people are feeling that passion too.

Anyway, most of you ladies are so much more intelligent and articulated than me so I don't think I'll contribute anymore but wanted to delurk for a bit to show my hand too. SC - you are a star!

so do you fall into the gambler category, numanoid?

I wouldn't say so, although maybe I will be seen as one for voting Yes. I'm not a gambler in the literal sense, I don't take many risks/gambles (even down to not buying lottery tickets).
I was trying to think of how to say it without boring everyone with points you've already heard, but maybe the best way to sum it up is that I've weighed up the risks, read and listened to as much as I can, and have decided that the positives (of independence) outweigh the negatives. I also don't think that anyone can say, with certainty, what will happen to the economy in the event of a Yes vote.

I'm uncomfortable with attacking a female journalist. I don't really know if she's any good or not but women in the public eye tend to attract more patronising and personal criticism than men.

That said, those who claim the BBC is biased against Yes clearly didn't see the interview after the report that it wasn't impossible/too expensive to move trident to a rUK location and a bbc interviewer (who might have been Jackie Bird or someone else) repeatedly put it to Darling that it was scaremongering How on earth was it meant to scare people? It just challenged the idea that Trident couldn't be accommodated elsewhere.

Thanks for that SC. The sheer weight of informed opinion on this ought to be disturbing to anyone supporting secession. The SNP didn't do their homework or at least didn't tell non-politician voters their conclusions if they did.

Welcome to the threads Ulysses!

Sorry Spiritedwolf but I'm afraid that it's obligatory in the West of Scotland to laugh at JB's sequins. Have you really never seen the things she wears?

Got stopped in town today at the Yes stand and asked how I was voting. I was happy to tell him No

for selfish reasons. I don't want to pay more tax, i want to stay in a job and I like being british.

It is coming to a point where the weight of economic evidence really is very significantly against independence. I know the Yes camp still have a few experts but it really is starting to look thin - and you will never get total unity in economics anyway.

I'm also finding the yelling about WM encouraging business to speak out and complaining about them doing Scotland down etc to be massively hypocritical when Salmond is doing exactly the same - trying to get companies to speak out in favour and crowing like a prize cockerel when he manages to!

Ah, since I started to write that and got interrupted by a toddler there have been comments about NS too. I am uncomfortable with personal comments being directed at her too.

I might be voting No, but I would rather that women aren't put off becoming public figures because of the disproportionate personal criticism directed at them.

(I'm not accusing women here of misogyny... just reminding people to remember the wider picture. It doesn't mean you have to agree with or like every woman in the public eye).

I too would be uncomfortable Spirited with personal comments about Nicola Sturgeon or indeed too personal about Alex Salmond for example their private lives which have thankfully never been referred to in this or previous threads as far as I'm aware.

La Bird (for that is how she is known) is a different matter though. You'll have to allow the actual or spiritual West Coasters to have a dig at her sequins. She would expect nothing less and indeed her dress sense is probably what's kept her up there for so long.

As you don't seem to know her well, I recall a long time ago a friend commenting about an old boyfriend of mine 'He would go to his own funeral in rhinestones'. That about sums up Jackie when she's presenting.

I like and admire Nicola Sturgeon. I think she must be made of amazing stuff to sustain this degree of full on campaigning. I'm a no voter but I know a strong woman when I see one.

I honestly take very little notice of what people wear and sometimes who they are either (hence not being absolutely sure whether it was Jackie Bird interviewing or not). So her wardrobe and it being a standing joke escaped my notice Of course, female presenters having to wear particular kinds of outfits while men have standard suits is also a sexism issue...

I am absolutely not inferring that people who do notice such things are superficial, more that I am a bit rubbish with social stuff like that (possibly have undx AS)

If the Yes campaign want to share the pound, the military and the Queen, what's the point of independence?

Just a lighthearted question for the No voters (no real reason, just curious and because I think we aren't going to change each other's minds at this late stage).
If there was unanimous agreement by every financial expert and body (I know this wouldn't happen, but for the purposes of the question) that iScotland's economy would flourish, and we would certainly have no financial difficulties at all, including none of the big companies moving down south, would you vote Yes? Or would you still vote No for other reasons?

I know people have possibly answered this before but I can't keep up with the threads these days. :)

DH informs me that the woman in the studio on Reporting Scotland at the moment is Jackie Bird. She isn't wearing sequins as far as I can see but I'll bow to your greater knowledge of her wardrobe.

Personally still no.

I believe the need to keep the queen is because she owns all the sea bed around the uk. If more oil is discovered out there then she will need to be queen if Scotland as well for Scotland to make use of the new oil fields. Simples.

I do have positive reasons for staying in the UK which I've expressed on another thread. But I'd certainly be a lot more likely to vote Yes if I didn't think it would have such hideous economic consequences and that it would not hurt our poorest so much. I genuinely, wholeheartedly believe that the people the Yes campaign say this will protect will be the most hurt.

If there were real positives which could make their lives better i.e. economic improvements then maybe I would vote Yes in spite of my other views because I believe in protecting the most vulnerable.