Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

That's her in her journalist role where she's a bit of a sobersides. Where she really 'shines' are the big production numbers which she hosts such as the annual NY party and I suspect that's the sort of thing that the first poster was referring to. (She gets all sequinned up for those nights. )

In those circumstances I would vote Yes if and after I'd considered and discussed the arguments they made. I would have to agree with them before I changed my mind.

As it is I do agree with the weight of informed opinion so I won't be changing my mind.

I would be more likely to vote Yes if the economic, political and social arguments were such that me, my family and my future grandchildren were likely to benefit from me giving up my Britishness. I would also want to see politicians in the Scottish Parliament who I felt were capable of standing on an international stage without waving tartan and shortbread around and banging on about being 'Scoa'ish' - none of them are anything more than vainglorious Councillors, or big fishes in wee ponds. As it is, the arguments don't convince me (or the financial experts) and so a narrow Nationalist view isn't going to sway me.

The fallout from a Yes vote is going to hurt so many people - the wealthy will simply move their money to the most tax efficient part of the UK, jobs will move South, pensions and other investments will be hit hard and we will be left with a fledging economy that will struggle to meet the demands it will face. And all because people want the chance to ruin their own country, and opposed to being run from WM. It's heartbreaking - but I hope to God common sense prevails and we get a No vote.

Thanks for your answers everyone, I know the economy is (understandably) an important factor in many people's decisions. I realise that it will be the reason a lot of people vote No, but that there are many other factors too.

In my heart of hearts, I want Scotland to stay as part of the UK. I think that together, we are more than the sum of our parts.

But if I genuinely thought it was best for Scotland, for people's welfare, I would vote yes, albeit with a heavy heart.

Or would you still vote No for other reasons?

I would still vote No. I like being British, I like the Union. I don't think of my identify as Scottish. The only circumstances I could imagine voting Yes were if there had been some unimaginable change in society and culture in the UK and it had turned into a one party dictator.

So really none of the Yes arguments would ever have changed my mind. I voted No in both devolution referenda.

I think the problem Numanoid is that a lot of people (I don't mean you) almost put the economy in a little "not my thing, not bothered" box. I have discussed with Yes voters who say "the poorest will be better off", "we won't cut benefits" etc etc, yet cannot or will not discuss the economy. These issues don't exist in isolation and it worries me that there are definitely people who are filing the economic stuff in the "scaremongering" box whilst believing they can still have the free childcare etc that the White Paper promises them.

As for the JB thing - a)no attack and b)she's a lightweight masquerading as a serious political journo, only given the job because "och, the Scoa'ish people love Jackie, let's get her own to speak about the referendum" when we could have had any number of other female journos would who have been up to the job. I loathe the patronising, dumbing down of current affairs.

chocoluvva

I love your posts - please keep updating us with what you are seeing and hearing on the streets when you are out canvassing. We get to see or here none of that outside Scotland, we can't feel the atmosphere you are all experiencing ... only try to imagine what it must be like.

In my heart of hearts, I want Scotland to stay as part of the UK. I think that together, we are more than the sum of our parts.

I don't think that the UK functions better as a whole, politically-speaking, but I wouldn't like animosity between the people living in each country.
I get on well with the English side of the family, and would hate to think that people would fall out just over nationality. English-living-in-Scotland aunt has said she will be gutted if Scotland votes No, she doesn't see it as wanting to cut the country off, rather doing what she thinks best for the country she lives in, and plans to stay in. I hope this is what the majority of voters have in mind, no matter which way they vote.

That would be 'that the White Paper appears to promise them' SC. Read the words carefully. I'm not a number cruncher but I do know some carefully crafted 'speak' when I see it.

My mum was canvassing yesterday. Some arsehole leaned out of an upstairs window and started shouting death threats at them.

She was the wrong woman to do that to mind, she just hollered back!

Well indeed OneNight. But many people do think it's promises :(

Believe me - it's not a party up here Fontella (unless you're a small handful of committed Yes voters slavishly following the 'positivity regardless' stance of the SNP). It's becoming a PITA - I just want the whole thing over with, but the fallout from this is going to continue for months, if not years

Generations I believe SirChenjin unless some hard work on reconcilation takes place very quickly. Hard and inspirational work.

That's a fair point, Phaedra, I think although there are many people who feel more Scottish than British, there are also many who don't want to leave the UK as they feel more British than Scottish. Both are valid reasons.

I'm nowhere near an expert in the economy Statistically, although I've read up on it as much as I can, I don't know if I would debate it. Usually I would tell people to ask DP (as he is extremely clued-up, much more so than me - although if anyone asks I didn't admit that!). I think we're still in trouble if we stay in the UK with the cuts being confirmed, and sadly it doesn't look like the poorest people in the country will receive any more help.

I read recently that the White Paper was 600-odd pages of what an inde Scotland would look like, and only 1 page of actual hard figures. Not sure if that's true, but surely to God, if it's going to be so great then why are the facts and figures not backing that up? It should be so easy to show exactly where this wealthy is going to come from, how, and when.

Hard and inspirational work

That requires the will of several million people - and I honestly don't think that's there. I think there is so much bitterness, anger and sheer strength of feeling amongst voters (or at least, there will be come Friday), and we don't have the calibre of politicians to take undertake this hard and inspirational work as we go forward. I honestly don't. It will be an empty victory, whatever way it goes.

There was analysis done which found that even if an independent Scotland followed the UK spending plans by the point where the UK is expected to be back in a surplus (2020), Scotland would still have about a 3% deficit. Since those numbers were calculated the situation has actually worsened a bit I think re oil revenues etc.

For a currency union, we'd need to be in the plus. For sterlingisation, we'd need to be running a bigger surplus e.g. 5-10% to allow us to build up the needed reserves. And the cuts would need to be faster too.

My heart and head are in agreement in voting No. If financially it was all going to be fine then I'd be less worried about and more understanding of people voting for independence. But I'd still vote no. I do believe in devolution though.

Apparently the party to be at in London right now - Eddie Izzard, Dan Snow, Bob Geldof organised a unity rally in trafalgar square. Wish I was there!

I would vote No, on the basis that it would remain unclear that what was best for Scotland now would be the best for Scotland my children lived in. There is a reason why true political independence is arguably something of the past. It is that cooperation and integration between states is generally a very good thing. It ensures peace, generates wealth through trade, and makes a more culturally rich landscape. Scotland has had formal legal union since 1707 and arguably de facto political union since 1603, and this union has been very successful.

I also don't see how it follows that just because a nation is a nation it ought to be independent. Scotland has been an identifiable nation for about 1000 years. The fact that it has been in a union of one sort of another for just about under half that time doesn't make it any less of a nation: in fact it would be a denial of Scotland's own heritage to say that it's nationhood has't developed while its been in union.

Can I ask the Yes voters - how much (on a scale of 1-10) do the economic arguments affect your decision to vote Yes?

here you go SirChenjin, one long white paper

spirited Jackie is not immune to criticism because she is female....

That interview with Darling recently is exactly why I don't like her.
She barracked him in a really rude fashion and didn't add anything except exposing herself as (on that occasion at least) a really poor journalist.

Statisically - I don't think I can bear to look at that