Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

These are real people with real jobs. I have never seen so many supposedly left leaning people be so blas about the jobs of ordinary people.

That's not fair Statistically I could say that No voters don't give a shit about all the children being pushed into poverty, about the old people dying of hypothermia, about the disabled dying before they get the benefits - but that wouldn't be fair either.

• The point is if we lose these jobs (and who knows how many others) we won't have the tax revenue to improve welfare services.

Even the SNPs own figures acknowledge we'd be 6BN down on day one, and that's before any of the impact caused by the currency issues, etc

I don't think Thecat that Scotland will cease to be a member of the EU on the 19th September.

Its membership or not will be part of the negotiations that will take place between then and the 16th March 2016 between rUK and Europe as well. Realistically without being part of Britain, Scotland cannot function without membership of the EU - to me that is unthinkable.

But that's where it starts to unravel - for example with tuition fees. Currently there is a loophole to allow Scotland to charge English students tuition fees, but not those from say France. Membership of both countries in the EU independently will mean that Scotland will then have to provide free tuition to English students. So Scotland will have to drop their free tuition for local students or find another way to pay the bill.

I read somewhere and I cannot remember where it was (it could have been an opinion then not a fact) that AS was going to stop that happening - I wonder how ?

I am sure there will be other issues caused by both countries being independent within Europe - not sure though.

As far as border controls , you are quite right though. Without membership of the EU, whatever Scotland does will be up to them but England will have to secure the border, presumably at its own cost. Again though - these things will be up for negotiations, it may be that England pays to secure the border, while Scotland pays to move Trident or some such (I have no idea of the costs etc)

itsall I'm a no voter and one of the many reasons is because I not only care about child poverty but that I recognise we can only change that with a strong economy.

Salmond wants to expand the welfare state but hasn't explained how it can be paid for and right now it looks like it will have to be massively cut.

I have the same overall desires as you - but they need to be paid for.

So, RBS is going to relocate to London???

For Fucks sake

Whoever asked about Business for Scotland

chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/who-do-business-for-scotland-represent.html

Link is from June, not mine, I haven't checked it all, and it is obviously written by a No person. No time to go through it and see what current position in (guessing more people have joined) as I once again need to go and do some work in my bloated financial services role. Have to get stuff finished before taking time off next week

I'm getting my woo hoo!! in now as I've just started indyref 9 for us all.

No, that would not be remotely a fair comparison. It might if I had ever said 'benefits are too high they need reduced '. But I didn't, did I? I've never said anything like that and you know it fine well. You on the other hand did just say an industry needs to be slimmed down. So I stand by my view.,

Tension I do agree with you re uncertainty having been through more changes and restructure than I care to remember in the industry. It's just the 'ach it's financial services they're too big for their prada boots' attitude that gets to me as I have seen a lot of it recently. And it is often from people who yell on the other hand about what thatcher did to certain industries. It's like some sort of bizarre inverted snobbery from some people -like because my skill is numbers rather than welding I'm less of a person.

Oh and I'll add that many no voters-me included -are voting no at least in part because we believe it would be incredibly damaging to the poorest in our society. Far more so than Westminster inflicted austerity. We're voting no because we care not because we don't.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels

Some fair points, however given that FS is precarious now, it stands to reason that these positions will be far more vulnerable if Scotland is no longer part of the UK.

There are many highly paid jobs in the FS industry and an rUK's priority would be to ensure that as many as possible go to their own people/voters. This could eventually apply to rest of the 1,000,000 Scottish jobs dependent on English-based companies.

Even if only a small percentage relocate South, it would have a devastating effect on the Scottish economy. It's a risk we don't need to - and shouldn't - take.

Sorry, not a particularly enlightening post there, but I cant believe the nerve of RBS, I really cant

Why nerve? I can't blame them. They are trying to calm investors and customers.

It's not the fault of RBS that Salmond and co have got us into this mess.

Moving the head office was almost a foregone conclusion and has been for a long time. They don't have much choice.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Thank you for the link. It's an interesting doc.

In the topic sentence of the introduction it says the report's intent is to examine the question "can small, indepdendent states be sucessful". I have no issue with answering "yes they can" to that. Given that I live right next door to Swizerland.

I think other statements made in the intro support the point I was underlining. That it is not enough to point to the existence of small, sucessful independent states as evidence of do-ability. As the doc points out, the sucess of many independent states is based on their unique circumstances and charateristics rather than being evidence that becoming "small and indepdendent" means sucess is reasonble expectation.

What Scotland and the Padana Plain have in common is a long standing union (albeit with the Scottish/English union being considerably older), with an intact, super state union on top, based on agreements made as part of the original union. I didn't find anything in the report linked that eradicated those factors as being noteworthy.

Lega Nord supporters often point to Switzerland as "proof" that they can drag us out of Italy and it'll all be fine. They see similar population size, wealth and resources. But tend not to examine the only too evident differences and the rather large obsticles that are a bit more than the mere "hiccups" they are portrayed as.

Because this is the Bank that was so badly managed under Fred the Shred that it needed mahooooooosive bail out by the taxpayers.

Now that Scotland may vote Yes they are skipping off down south to 'protect themselves'.

They may care about their investors (though they didn't when they shafted them to pay enormous bonuses did they?) but they sure don't give a damn about their customers or the ordinary workers they will leave behind.

There's no suggestion that they won't continue to trade, almost as normal, in Scotland. Their registered office, and perhaps in time their HQ's, will be in England. Of course, this will have an impact on corporation tax which AS has been studiously ignoring, as well as income tax revenue from the higher earners who will relocate down south as part of this strategy.

firstchoice have you missed all the threads where we have talked about banking regulations, customer location etc? RBS are only a Scottish bank in name now. They are more or less owned by the UK treasury, they have lots of customers who would be in rUK in the event of Scottish independence - I don't see they have an option. It is not only to protect themselves, it is because they may have to do this in order to stay in business.

They are not skipping off down south they are trying to keep themselves in business. Which also means they can preserve the current accounts, savings, mortgages and probably countless other products of ordinary men and women. I suspect only a small percentage of their customers are actually in Scotland. They have to act in accordance with the rules of the financial regulators. At the moment this is a contingency plan - but they need to be ready to move and it is completely appropriate that people know that.

And if we don't have the pound, will they continue to trade then ? What if it has to be the euro ? What if it is something else ?

I don't think these companies are in for the long haul after 'Independence Day'. And they will be quite within their rights to say, sorry guys, we have no choice now, you have chosen your own path. We will move our Scottish operations to the headquarters now in Central London.

It's not the fault of RBS that Salmond and co have got us into this mess.
It's not the fault of the Yes campaign - blame the mainstream Westminster parties who are trying to scare us all by saying we can't have a currency union or use the pound, Despite the fact that there would be benefits to rUK and Scotland for sharing the pound (which is Scotland's as much as anyone else's in any case). Panicky, dirty tricks... and the old boys Westminster/boardroom club at it yet again.

PS: moving your brass nameplate from Edinburgh to London does not in itself mean that jobs are going to be moved or lost.

*Even the SNPs own figures acknowledge we'd be 6BN down on day one". We would have a deficit less in GDP terms that the UK currently has. No-one is currently saying that the UK can't go it alone. A 3% structural deficit, as per the White Paper, is economically sustainable and in line with many other prosperous countries.

Scottish operations would probably end up as a completely separate entity in that situation Lucky. Possibly as part of a group, possibly not. Frankly it feels like everything is up in the air at the moment.

I'd guess only if they wanted to - it might not be in their interests to do so.

I am concerned only that people are looking at the biggest picture possible when they make their decision next week, it seems strange to me that some people are not considering that the FS might move entirely out of the country . Of course if they do, this will take some time, they won't be able to do it overnight. But still...what sort of industry will take its place ? Jobs will be needed.

Gers figures show our deficit is bigger than 3%

If we were no longer to operate in one state with one market and – broadly – one set of rules, our business model would inevitably become more complex. We would have to reflect our cost to operate here.

This is not an argument for or against independence, it is simply an honest recognition of the costs that change could bring. For us the customer is always right and this important decision is in their hands

– ANDY CLARKE, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF ASDA

Indyref 9

woo hoo