Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

In the yes campaign defence - I've heard NS saying that there would be challenges for an independent Scotland too. But glossed over quickly. And sandwiched between claims that Scotland would be better off independent and is already richer than rUK.

Tinkerball it is not moronic to celebrate a yes vote in the event of a yes vote. Claiming it's 7 days till Scotland is officially independent and planning a party on the assumption that everyone will be happy is what I was actually talking about. As I said. Not everyone will be happy if a yes vote goes through. Not everyone will be happy if a note goes through. And the yes vote has most definitely not been passed as of yet and I'm rather tired of yes campaigners claiming it has.

I don't doubt it probably will go through but I certainly wouldn't be saying with absolute certainty that it will at this stage because unless someone has a crystal ball, no one knows!

An independent Scotland will be a positive thing. The question is how long it will take to get over the initial issues.

Maybe so - agree to disagree

It's all. Sorry. But you specifically?

But it does seem unless I read wrong moderately insulated personally?

I agree Bardar and then they criticise 'no' posters responses to requests to state the positive case for staying in UK as too optimistic.

Weatherall sorry to burst your bubble but once the "glut of pensioners" have "passed on" this does not mean we will be able to afford more public spending.

The population of people of pensionable age Scotland is projected to rise rapidly, reaching 1.32 million in 2035.

Other yes voters I know... pharmacist and heaktg researcher for the nhs. Engineer for a private local firm that exports internationally. Finance worker for an international bank. Carer. Nurse (nhs and private), headteacher, small business owner, public sector worker, lawyer for a private firm, off shore planner, a microbiologist, a few retail workers, a few stay at home mums, aome retired people. ..

I could go on!

Teacher (public sector) so I will be very, very badly affected if the IMF end up bailing out Scotland and they make huge cuts. My school is tiny and I am first into my department so might survive a huge cut in staffing. (English - key subject as well) However, I would become a single teacher department and, additionally, would be teaching bi or even tri level classes to up to 30 pupils. (We are not talking primary here where this already happens, but secondary where colleagues in other schools are already being expected to teach, for example N4 and N5 in the same class or N5 and Higher. One colleague even has a combined S1/S2 class). Additionally, wide cuts would affect my own children. Our IT / Computer teaching retired a couple of years ago and was not replaced so these subjects are off the curriculum. Should other "non essential" subjects become vacancies, it wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with far more subjects being taught by ODL (Open and Distance Learning) - fine if you are an adult but not much fun for a 12-18 year old.

Already we have seen huge cuts under the SNP who want to preserve their flagship policies (free prescriptions etc) but don't care about sectors that have gone quiet. Teachers were so busy being upset about the new curriculum, we didn't have time to campaign on class sizes. Under Labour (devolved issue) we had maximum class sizes of 20 in Maths and English. This no longer exists. There was no funding (apart from Inset days - costing parents!) for the new Curriculum. All new textbooks, staff training, new materials, had to be funded out of existing budgets. Staff travel has been cut so we are not always being allowed out to go on training for things like the new Higher because there is no money to pay for our travel (over 100 miles). Most of us just pay our own travel.

So, a lot of skin in the game. And a lot of evidence about what the SNP will cut to preserve flagship policies that are designed to achieve their only objective - to be independent.

But at what cost?

It'sall not sure what your list proves. I know no. Items within those professions too

It's all. Sorry. But you specifically?

Sorry should have said my family including me. As for insulated from things, sadly not. Times have been very hard.

*I also know no voters.

It'sall not sure what your list proves. I know no. Items within those professions too

Its not meant to prove anything Someone up thread asked what professions Yes voters are in.

Thanks for explaining that Browneyedgirl. I hope it's a yes, I think it will be a no....either way I will be glad when the vote is over!

I'll bite.

"May your choices reflect your hopes and not your fears"

I choose to vote no because I will continue to fight for social justice and equality for 63.5 million people on these islands (rather than only the 5.3milllion people living nearest(ish) to me) because I believe that by the strength of our common endeavour we can achieve more than we do alone . My hope is to have a left of centre Labour government at Westminster making a positive difference to poor and working people across the UK with strengthened devolution to decide matters local to Scotland.

I know folk may sneer at that, but I believe it is possible and more likely than an independent Scotland having the resources (and will) to be as left leaning as is claimed by some supporters - like Carol Craig, I suspect the libertarians, international markets etc have the power and influence to push us to a leaner, meaner version of Scotland. (Fair enough if you like that sort of thing, but not what the majority of Scots want, nor the tone of what is being promised by the Yes campaign).

As Carol Craig pointed out, nationalists are selectively optimistic - certain that independence will be successful and about UKIPs appeal in England (and being specifically English) but somewhat more pessimistic about Labour's chances of election success and how positive they will be.

... and because I've seen the way the discussion tends to go when Labour gets mentioned I'll let you know that I marched against the Iraq war, that many Labour MPs voted against it, that the Labour leader has changed twice - and is now someone who wasn't even an MP at the time of they voted on the Iraq war and that I think Labour has learnt from its mistakes on this issue. You don't have to believe me about that, but I don't think there's any point derailing the independence debate to debate it.

That said about my hopes, you can't just dismiss people's fears about this. It's a huge decision with plenty of risks to really important things. Some ardent nationalists might be prepared to risk 10-20 years of financial instability (and fewer public services etc) in the name of the greater good, but my son is 2 years old, these are the 10-20 years of my life that I am raising a young family, they matter to me. I don't think the opportunities of independence (such as they are - I'm not convinced there are many) are worth the very real and substantial risks.

I appreciate that Yes voters place more weight to those opportunities, and less weight to the risks. Its a very personal decision, but a very important one for the whole country.

I appreciate that Yes voters place more weight to those opportunities, and less weight to the risks. Its a very personal decision, but a very important one for the whole country.

I think that summarises things very neatly Everyone here wants the best they can get, we just differ about the best way to get that.

I'm a No voter but I do know quite a few Yes voters who work at Standard Life. Most of them acknowledge that their jobs may be at risk but most are single youngish workers with no ties to keep them in Scotland if their job goes and they've been through survived various redundancy programmes at the Company before so it's nothing new to them.

I also know lots of No voters there who are very very worried about their job security.

Re RBS (not sure if this has been mentioned?) CEO has clarified they are just going to move Head Office, not operations or jobs...

Senior roles will gravitate towards the head office. In talk of a race to the bottom do you want your financial sector to be simply a call centre economy. Because a lot countries do that for a lot less.

Everyone here wants the best they can get

I am so sick of campaigners ignoring the argument that voting no is the morally right thing to do, to share our resources and work as part of a UK team instead of grabbing as many resources as we think we can only for the people of Scotland at enormous disruption to rUK.

Even if you believe in the right to self-determination I don't think it should override the ideal of working together will all the peoples of the UK.

And the stated aim of a fairer and more just society should apply to everyone not just Scottish people.

just going to move Head Office, not operations of jobs

Head Office isn't completely automated - it's a source of jobs.

Senior roles will gravitate towards the head office. In talk of a race to the bottom do you want your financial sector to be simply a call centre economy.

Our financial sector is worryingly large, it could do with slimming (sorry Statistically)

Choccoluvva cheers for calling me immoral... Can you explain how Scotland within the UK can help make the UK a fairer and more just society?

Its. - that is the best and most honest thing you have said. And I wish more people who denounce no voters as quislings or traitors had your understanding.

We all want the best for our country. We disagree with the best way to get there.

The same could be said for all politicians. The Tories I have met an by this I mean MPs as well as the labour ones have not been evil or uncaring. They all want to do what they see as best for their country.

This is why sometimes you get a club like atmosphere with MPs when they have been an MO for a while. They know that the person opposite has the same best intention just a different route. The posturing is truly for public consumption. I have been on a couple of committees and they are not like what you see on the telly.

A sector of the economy needs slimming? Let's put people out of work. Not because it is loss making but because the greater good demands more balancing. Perhaps they can make tractors?

Good point choco
Another quote;
We are all Jock Tamson's bairns