To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

[Boysclothes]

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

I can see your point to a degree, but I can't really see a difference between him and a 17 year old girl. What about midwives who have never had children, what about 18 year old boys studying medicine who will do obstetric places, what about male obstetricians, what about midwives whose experiences and perspectives of 'female' and childbirth are totally different to yours? I don't see that any of those people are any more qualified than this boy purely on the basis of his age and gender. There are plenty of more mature female midwives and obstetricians I wouldn't want within 5 miles of me when pregnant or labouring so on balance I think YABU, however I do understand your immediate reaction.

I sort of agree, but only because I think 17 is awfully young to have to make a decision regarding uni courses in general.

'I'm not sure about this. How many pregnant women would be comfortable with an 18 year old (whether male or female) staring up their vagina?'

When I had ds1 the peadriatrican that was staring up my vagina at birth didn't look much older than 17!
By that stage I really didn't care!

My cousin in 16, and the thought of him training to be a MW next year is turning my stomach to be frank. How much does the average teenage boy know about the female anatomy that isn't gleaned from Xhamster?

And personally, I'd refuse outright to be "midwifed" by him- as would a lot of other women I know. Not to mention other women that would consent to treatment but be hugely uncomfortable with it. I don't think his equal op employment rights should trump those of the patients TBH.

I tend to think that any man (and at 17 he's certainly on the threshold of being a man, and shouldn't just be dismissed as a boy) who has enough guts to buck gender stereotypes will be a bloody good midwife.

Disclaimer, I do have issues surrounding men in general, so my opinion probably isn't that useful really.

inappropriate? I pity boys, I really do - do you really just think all young men are raging horn-dogs who won't be able to contain themselves around a pregnant woman's vagina? What about equality?! Or does that only apply to women .

Sorry, it's a no from me.
Rightly or wrongly, a very young male would not get near me.

I'd have no issue with it - you have 18 year old trainee nurses and Dr's - why is a midwife different?

Good luck to him

For this type of work your motives need to be right. From the OP's post, this doesn't sound to be the case, so I would not be happy with it.

you'd be surprised how quickly you do get hands on experience when training as a midwife, our first placement in community was 4/5 weeks after the start of the course. This was of course things like taking blood pressure, palpating the abdomen, listening to the fetal heart etc and not straight into catching babies. However I did see my first birth less than 2 months after starting my course as my community mentor went to home births.

Im envious of any 17 year old who knows what they want to do and I think bloody good for him. I wish I had any kind of inkling what I wanted to do at that age.

His age and sex doesn't concern me.

The fact that he chose midwifery over nursing because of the stated reasons. They are really, really different carers.

Mechanics/building sites/other male dominated professions do not compare in any way/shape/form to medical professions that involve providing incredibly intimate personal care.

Who really wants a 17 year old boy shoving two fingers where the sun don't shine, or stitching their bum hole back together?

I had a (female) student midwife all the way through my ante-natal appointments and I must admit I didn't like it - she was very 'young' which translated as being unsure. She could never find the baby's heartbeat or how the baby was lying and she'd flap a bit while doing it.

I think she was too immature to be having her hands-on experience.

So in terms of youth, you know the boy so you may not be U, he may be too immature. However, on the grounds of sex you are definitely being U.

All that said it does sound like he may be going into it because his mother thinks he'll earn more, which doesn't feel like quite the right motivation.

I actually disagree that birth is a very personal, female thing. For me (and many many other people on MN) it was a painful, protracted, medical situation involving lots of different people of both sexes. The fact that it happened to involve my "female parts" rather than an arm or a leg or whatever was completely irrelevant. By the time this lad is trained or even allowed near an actual pregnant woman he will be a way down the line and they can always refuse / request as with any midwife.

gordy - I have had trainee Drs sit in on consultations. Very different from a trainee being present when you are actually giving birth. And I have said I don't want a trainee Dr there when I know a conultation is going to deal with particularly traumatic or difficult issues. So I refused to have a trainee woman there when a psychiatrist was assessing a relative for sectioning.

Well my friend's son is a midwife. He is 24. He often has 'problem patients' who send him out of the room because he is male. He has a friend and fellow colleague who is also a male midwife. He is openly gay and so much more accepted by female patients than my friend's son. It has not been an easy career choice for him.

Needs to come from him, not his mum.

Frankly, in light of the shocking prejudice shown here I would recommend him to rethink. It sounds like it would be a pretty bleak experience for him.

Yup I had the same thoughts regarding medical students but they don't have hands on until year 4 I think? So a bit older. Whereas he will be in clinical placement by the October.

I just think if you're a mature experienced man, and a nurse at that, you can kind of assimilate what you'll see in labour with the rest of your life experience. Not sure if a just turned 18 year old can assimilate a woman in Labour in all her bloody screaming fluid-y glory with so little experience of womanhood otherwise.

You can talk about equal opportunities until the cows come home, but there would still be labouring women who, if faced with a teenage boy seeing them and caring for them when they are about to give birth with all the possible loss of control and dignity it could entail, would feel even more stressed about the experience. I have never even had a baby and this is the way I would feel, I am pretty sure.

As for girls being mechanics and so on, it doesn't really involve the kind of thing described above does it?

Why are his motives not right?? He wants to be in a caring profession - seems ok to me. His mum is giving him some careers advice regarding options - also seems ok. As far as I can see, he is just gathering information in order to make a decision. What's wrong with that?

Nobody would question a 17 year old boy considering entering the medical profession (where he may well, during training and whilst still a 'teenage boy', witness births and participate in obstetric and gynaecological procedures) - I do think it is rather sexist to just say, 'oooh birth is different'.

How much does the average teenage boy know about the female anatomy that isn't gleaned from Xhamster?
Just this week, the story has been in the press that in a study by "The Eve Appeal" HALF of women aged 26 to 35 couldn't identify a vagina on a diagram. I don't imagine teenage girls would fair much better than adult women, do you?

There are plenty of mothers of teenage boys on here, teenage boys who are gasp actual intelligent, sensitive, thoughtful human beings not that different from girls.

I think good for him and i would (and did) have no problem with male staff looking up my vagina during pregnancy and labour. I also respect that other women would have a problem but dont agree that this means midwifery should be a male free profession.

emsyj - 17 year old medical students do not get involved in or witness bloody and difficult procedures. 17 is very young still.