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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

618 replies

Boysclothes · 05/09/2014 11:26

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
AppleAndMelon · 06/09/2014 23:52

UpSheFlew My God, I'd far rather have had a nice calm male midwife than a couple of the old female dragons I had at various stages.

Why is it 'wimmin's business'? I didn't have a frigging clue about babies or childbirth until I had children - nor did many of my friends. It's surely nothing to do with sex, but your interest in the whole messy procedure, ability to empathise, ability to deal with the pain of others, ability to learn and operate in that environment?

UpSheFlew · 06/09/2014 23:52

Anyway, all messing aside, I'm not against men having a look at my vag. During childbirth, my vag ceased to be a vag sometime around 5cm. What I'm trying to get across, is the desire I feel to be supported by another woman during labour. I'm not talking about emergencies or sections or any of that. I'm talking about natural, non-complicated, non-medicated childbirth. What the hell is wrong with this concept? I'm starting to feel as much outrage as AppleAndMelon there. But from the other end of it.

UpSheFlew · 06/09/2014 23:54

It's wimmin's business, cause it's only wimmin that can do it. And yes, when given a choice between a nice calm male and a female dragon, I'd go with the male every time. But you see, in my fantasy of the perfect midwife, 'she' is nice and calm. And female obviously.

AppleAndMelon · 07/09/2014 00:00

Is that something to do with how you see males UpSheFlew? Unless a woman has actually had a baby, I'm not sure why she would be better. I can see if she had been through it herself she could maybe empathise a little better when compared with a male of identical ability to empathise.

UpSheFlew · 07/09/2014 00:02

And that, ladies and gentlemen (yes, you there, hiding behind the sofa clutching your copy of Spiritual Midwifery) is how you kill a 24 page thread.

G'night Jim Bob.

UpSheFlew · 07/09/2014 00:05

Oh, we're off again. One for the road for me oul pal AppleAndMelon. Again, for the ideal midwife, she'd ideally have given birth herself. But I could live without that. Female still trumps male though. In midwifery only might I add. I have no problem with men. Some of my best friends are men. Honest.

OK, really gotta hit the hay. Will we just agree to disagree?

Essel · 07/09/2014 00:16

To be honest, the older I am, the less inclined I feel to agree to a male examining me.

I've had male obstetricians operating on me and I'm fine with that, but if one wanted to give me a breast exam, I would decline.

Men are welcome to choose any health related field they like and I feel comfortable exercising my choice not to put myself in a situation where I feel uncomfortable or embarrassed. It's entirely natural for me to feel uncomfortable with a man examining my genitals or handling my breasts (given a life time of conditioning) so why should I suck it up or get over it just because they have chosen to put us in the room together? Every time I meet a female ob/gyne I am relieved and thankful.

I would be especially unimpressed with a young male midwife milking me, mopping up my body fluids or peering at my wounds when I'm at my most vulnerable and confused.

Eastpoint · 07/09/2014 04:33

I had a male midwife as one of the midwives in the birth of my first child. While I was somewhat surprised I knew that he had received the same training as any other midwife.

Equality works both ways. If he isn't right he won't get on the course.

Partridge · 07/09/2014 08:17

God, still loads of sexist shit going down. How depressing. When posters start using terms such as "eww" it loses them all credibility I'm afraid. It so dangerously panders to the ancient stereotypes that men can't show empathy and are not suited to caring roles.

Again, I believe that everyone should have a choice - including if you are uncomfortable with a particular female midwife (mine with ds1 sucked).

femin · 07/09/2014 10:21

No it is not saying men can't show empathy and are not suited to caring roles. If that is what you got from this thread, then you don't understand what women are saying who would not want a male midwife.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 07/09/2014 12:08

So what becomes of men on a ward for a male-only-type ailment of the personal kind? The nursing profession is predominantly female. Could every man on those wards request only another man to examine him, or give him a bed-bath, because he feels "uncomfortable" or "ewww" Confused (immature expression, IMO) with a woman doing it?

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 07/09/2014 12:23

IME, males are often far more considerate with regard to the workings of the female body.

Having endured years of incredibly painful smear tests, which were first time round unsuccessful and I always had to suffer a second visit, it was a male doctor who advised that I needed a particular size and shape of speculum and I should ask for it in future, because the "standard" wasn't right for me, and that was why most of my tests had to be redone (for YEARS).

After the birth of my first baby, it was a female GP who did my six-month check-up, and decided she was going to do a smear test at the same time. Well - there is still an imprint of myself on her ceiling as I shot into the air, I kid you not! I swear she went in up to her armpit!! Double Ouch, and I am really not exaggerating.

Speaking to another male GP about that particular incident, he said, "Oh, you don't need to tell me how rough Dr Female So-&-so is, my wife has said exactly the same thing.

Had my Merena Coil fitted by another male - he was absolutely as gentle as he could be, and it is not a comfortable procedure. I wanted to hug him afterwards, as he also fitted it under pretty trying circumstances (another story).
That same GP has checked my breasts for lumps when I was worried - he NEVER makes you feel you are wasting his time, whereas some of the female GPs do exactly that.

And as mentioned earlier - I had a male midwife, and never felt uncomfortable with it.

Do people honestly think men enter this profession in order to get a weird kick? I just think of it as a car mechanic looking at an engine - it's their job.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/09/2014 12:23

In my experience of working on a male ward I found the men to be quite inappropriate - making comments to me that made me feel a bit uneasy,

"ooh if I was 30 years younger...."
"Being looked after by you is sending my pulse soaring...."
"Please make my day by telling me you're about to do my bed bath..."

I was only 21/22 at the time and I had men aged 40 upwards saying things like this to me everyday. The comments were probably meant light hearted but I didn't like them. In my eyes it meant they saw me as 'eye candy' who they can make such comments to as opposed to a professional.

I doubt women patients would think it was ok to talk to male nurses in the same way?

I'm only saying this in relation to previous comments about the difference between the sexes and the 'objectifying' that goes on.

However, I still struggle to conceive that male professionals look at their female patients in such a way - but if course I could be wrong.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/09/2014 12:29

Maybe the male professionals in the scenarios you gave evans highlight how maybe the males are more gentle and careful because they know there is a chance the woman may feel uncomfortable with their sex and so try to do all they can to make the consultation or procedure as pleasant as possible to reassure the woman - and that's obviously a very caring and sympathetic approach fir them to take.

I had a Mirena Coil get list in me and had to be referred to a Specialist Clinic to have it removed and it was a male doctor who saw to me. My legs were in stirrups and he was shining a light up me as he poked around and it was so undignified, but he was a complete professional and I didn't feel awkward. He was very nice and friendly and was just doing his job.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 07/09/2014 12:30

WriterWannabe83 - Yes, I can totally understand that aspect of it as well. My grandmother and sister were both nurses (and sister was walloped a couple of times by violent patients).

But it's not quite the same thing as all the silly "Eww - I don't want a man looking at my fanny" comments. You get nice and nasty people in all walks of life - it just seems such a shame to completely write off a whole swathe of caring professionals who are surely in the job because they want to be and because they care about their patients.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 07/09/2014 12:33

Sorry Writer - crossed posts! My reply was to your first.
Re your second, agree totally, and good you had a positive experience! It is a very undignified procedure, for sure.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/09/2014 12:37

I had my husband with me as I was squeezing his hand due to the pain - I'm hoping he realised what women have to go through sometimes for the sake of contraception!!! Probably not though as he is already asking when I'm having another one out in Grin. (I had it removed for TTC purposes)

femin · 07/09/2014 12:42

Not wanting a man to look at your genitals is not silly. Your comment is so insulting and dismissive. Women should have the right to decide who looks at their body.

Partridge · 07/09/2014 12:55

Femin, I said it panders to that stereotype actually if you read my post properly. And it is silly to use the term "eww" which implies a childish squeamishness which belittles the many legitimate reasons demonstrated on here why a woman may not want a male midwife.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/09/2014 13:37

For women who haven't been victim of abuse but still feel uncomfortable about males being near their genitals be it a male midwife or male doctor that way of thinking/feeling must have stemmed from somewhere.

There must be a reason why some women (again excluding abuse victims) feel very strongly about male professionals being near their genitals whereas other women just aren't bothered.

SevenZarkSeven · 07/09/2014 13:54

Partridge who on the thread has said "eww"? I'm not sure where you've got that from and you have mentioned it more than once.

SomethingOnce · 07/09/2014 14:26

Yesterday 23:40

OscarWinningActress

Ew. No WAY would I let a teenage boy near my privates at a vulnerable moment. Sexism be darned. So inappropriate.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 07/09/2014 14:31

SevenZarkSeven - OscarWinningActress said it thus: Ew. No WAY would I let a teenage boy near my privates at a vulnerable moment. Sexism be darned. So inappropriate Shock

Even the phrase "my privates" is a bit shuddery

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 07/09/2014 14:32

Crossed post with Something - sorry, researching the thread takes time Grin

SevenZarkSeven · 07/09/2014 15:16

Ah right. I'm not really sure she had an "argument" but was just stating how she felt. She's also only one poster, and who knows what her reasons are for feeling that way.

I really don't think that women should need to justify having a preference in this should they? Although that does seem to be quite a strong feeling amongst some on the thread.