to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

[grovel]

Well?

Bit harsh there, Bardar! I'm not being disingenuous, only asking because the issue has come up again and again, on every one of these threads. So it's clearly a genuine concern to some.

And I have RFTF, Statistically. And what I've found odd is the notion of support for the poor = no respect for high earning women. In any just society, those who need assistance most should have priority. I'm not saying everyone on benefits is a saint and everyone on 50k+ is evil incarnate but basic social responsibility tells you that someone living below the poverty line should be a more immediate concern for a just government than someone who's not.

I wish MNHQ would let us submit our questions now for the debate

I'm not saying that either. But high earning (or just perceived high earning) women on these threads have been attacked, told they don't understand poverty, are selfish, born with a silver spoon, don't live in the real world, only care about themselves. Those specific people are showing little respect for high earning women by saying that just because they earn well and are voting no their views are invalid or irrelevant. That's what most people are complaining about.

Yes lower earners/those in poverty should be of significant concern to the governments, of course they should.

Basically, the Yes side would like to silence anyone that might have the capability of showing up their shortcomings. So they use emotive arguments, whereby it becomes impossible to have a sensible, rational discussion, because at any point an emotive point will be raised by them to siderail the discussion.

And they will twist, and twist that emotive point to get as much emotional blackmail out of it as possible. That's why I do feel its a bit morally repugnant. Theres something about doing that that sticks in my craw.

Its also why they really don't like getting back to basic common sense points. Such as the tax that pays for welfare benefits, and those who pay that tax.

Never mind, an independent Scotland, according to Nicola Sturgeon, will be sending all women out to work to pay those taxes.

Of course that shouldn't be happening, Statistically. And nor should people who think 80k is rich and happen to be voting yes be told they need to widen their social circle or are being wilfully ignorant.

I genuinely know just one person earning over 80k and that's BIL. But that doesn't make me narrow minded. Maybe it's because I'm still in my 20s and work in the public sector, similar to most of my friends.

"No, what I'm saying is that you and some other posters give the impression that you struggle to get on with people and have never met a successful woman. "

Oh, I see...so now success is only measured by how much you earn now....How shallow, please think outside that box of yours.

Never mind, an independent Scotland, according to Nicola Sturgeon, will be sending all women out to work to pay those taxes.

When did she say that?

You're making a statement about an entire campaign, Chelsy, which isn't fair. My mother is a high-earning Yes voter, as are quite a few of the men and women in both mine and DP's families.

Both campaigns use our emotions against us - how about Better Together telling us that we should vote No if we love our families? (I know it didn't say exactly that, but "I'm voting No because I love my family" can mean nothing else, to be honest).

Money has become a big talking point in this thread.

And nor should people who think 80k is rich and happen to be voting yes be told they need to widen their social circle or are being wilfully ignorant.

Is it just me that thinks 80k is rich? There's nothing wrong with earning that amount, I'd be happy if I did, but it isn't anywhere near the norm to have an 80k salary.

On tea break so no time to read back beyond last couple of pages.

No where have I made derogatory comments about women who are in the highest 10% of earners.

Success however does not equal earning a high wage.
I am highly qualified & very successful in my career.

I will never earn £80 grand and I'm perfectly fine with that, I don't begrudge anyone who earns that, why would I?

I don't know many people, prob 3 who earn that & I mix in various circles.

I don't judge anyone by what they earn, the accusations on this thread are beyond bizarre.

Why cant we get beyond this bloody 80k??

If you take what Council Band you live in as a proxy ('cos I don't ask know what my neighbours earn), the houses in my street are all band G (possibly a couple even Band H) which being Glasgow means we pay a fortune in council tax : we've just had a couple of Yes canvassers at the door (we had Better Together literature left a couple of days ago). They said that their results so far (half the street completed) were 14 Yes, 10 No and 3 Undecided.

(For the record: I don't mind paying the high council tax, as I appreciate the services that the city provides including the Art Galleries and Museums which the surrounding suburbs like Newton Mearns, Milngavie & Bearsden use but don't pay for

Dunno what the 80K obsession is, it's dull I agree.

I think 80k is well rich, Numanoid!

As I said upthread, I'm on a quarter of that (almost) and I could have earned a lot more if I'd stayed in academia but didn't want to. My job doesn't pay loads but it's the most I've ever earned and it's very rewarding. I feel sorry for anyone who measures success by earnings.

IMO £80k is rich Numanoid but I've been shot down in flames by several posters for expressing my opinion on this salary figure. I do not know any friend or family member who earns this amount.

Have we exhausted all of the actual issues relating to independence? What have we left to ask AD and AS?!!

"I feel sorry for anyone who measures success by earnings."

Ditto Corey. It's a sad reflection of the times if people are valued by how much they earn. Sad.

Why can't we get beyond this bloody 80k?? Because there are a couple of posters on this thread who are consumed by status and earnings, and are mightily pissed off that the rest of us are not all in awe of their greatness- so they keep trying to engineer a conversation to that effect that will derail the thread!

It's attention seeking behaviour on a massive scale, and I for one would not engage with them. You are only feeding them the Oxygen they crave.

Yes Corey we get the message that Yes voters are on a higher plane.

An 80 k earner is rich but pays a lot of tax. We may find them a bit stand-offish / snooty but if you succeed in getting them to sod off if they are so miserable (and stop pushing up house prices while they are at it) there will be less tax for social programmes.

Have I managed to offend everyone now?

How about everybody just stops measuring the values of any posters contribution by their earnings/social status? Then we could actually have a proper discussion without offending quite so many people?

" It's attention seeking behaviour on a massive scale, and I for one would not engage with them"

Good point, Celtic. I came late to the party and did bring the issue up again (because I thought it was mental) so I will take some of the blame!

couple of posters on this thread who are consumed by status and earnings

You're attacking the wrong people if you are blaming all of this on those higher earning women. Plenty of aggression and hostility has come from the other side .

I haven't seen any such vitriol coming from the Yes side, Statistically

In that case you can't have read all of the threads, sorry. I'm not going to go through and quote them all but there has been a lot of it.

Has my post touched a nerve Statistically

Same here, Corey, I earn less than I could in certain other areas, but I wouldn't be as happy in said areas.

I don't see the problem in mentioning it IrnBru, I haven't read the whole thread, but I haven't seen anyone saying they dislike high earners.

I haven't seen aggression and hostility coming from the 'Yes side', it's more one poster bringing up the "80k" point.