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AIBU?

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to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

999 replies

grovel · 04/09/2014 14:49

Well?

OP posts:
LadyCordeliaFlyte · 06/09/2014 13:45

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ChelsyHandy · 06/09/2014 13:46

Chelsy and lady Cordelia, you know personally I'm all for you and find you hilarious, but you do tend to come on, post loads and loads, throw around a lot of contentios and insulting opinions and derail what can be a constructive and interesting debate. I wouldn't go so far as to definately say it's deliberate , but it's not useful in helping everyone understand each other even if we're not going to agree.

So speaks the sharer of dreams. Not the stuff of dreams. But her own personal dreams. Which for some reason she seems to think other people want to hear. But deeedeee has such a high opinion of herself, she doesn't realise.

I do think some posters need to remember that there is an outside world. I can't believe some posters on here would integrate that well into a work environment, or even dealing with other people doing everyday stuff like going to the shops, so I would hope they manage to have stronger social skills (as in getting on with the typical variety of people you encounter) in real life.

But to seriously say they do not know people, who live in Edinburgh, who own houses anywhere in Scotland worth over £265,000, who earn 80k or more, who are educated, who have degree level jobs. It just sounds so weird. Most people know a variety of people, from very rough people who work in manual jobs to professionals. But they all either work or live off a partner who works. I admit the only disabled people I know work as well - it is difficult to meet housebound disabled people who are unable to work unless you go out of your way to do so, and I admit I don't. Does that make me selfish - I don't know, I would hope not, I pay plenty of tax but I also live my own life.

But there is definitely a myth on mumsnet, spread by people who spend far too much time on the internet and not outside with real people, that those on benefits are better people, sharper, more intelligent, than the stupid mugs who pay tax, who have all sorts of personal and character faults. But bless them, they're too stupid to know.

As I say, its embarrassing. I'm off, away from the internet, to actually do something. Spending too much time online warps your perception.

But I'll leave you with a question. Left wing socialism is all about redistribution of wealth. So what are Deeedeee, IrnBru, etc doing about that personally? I mean, how much tax are you paying? And how much more tax is LadyCoredia paying than you? So who is the better socialist? Because spouting off on the internet does not help make poverty go away, but paying tax on your earnings does.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/09/2014 13:56

I was stopped by a Yes campaigner with the line "save the (devolved) NHS"!!! Some people will say anything to get you to vote their way and get angry when you don't agree.

We do need to vote Yes to protect our NHS. Our funding comes from WM, based on what WM spends on NHS England. As they privatise more, they spend less, so our block grant for our NHS is cut. Scottish Government is doing everything it can, but obviously can't protect all services on a dwindling grant.

Iggi999 · 06/09/2014 14:06

very rough people who work in manual jobs
Hmm

ChelsyHandy · 06/09/2014 14:10

Aye. Rough as a 's Iggi.

What are you supposed to call them? Manual entrepreneurs or maybe not-so-naice Edinburgers? ;-)

I know they call themselves rough. And other things beside. We are not talking about office workers here.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/09/2014 14:16

How about just "people"?

Criseyde · 06/09/2014 14:17

"I know they call themselves rough. And other things beside. We are not talking about office workers here."

Wow. Just wow.

WildThong · 06/09/2014 14:24

iggi with the Hmm again..
Chelsy isn't p.c. in her terminology but I don't think she means any disrespect. Some people are rough, that's life.
Upthread there are references to toffs, white settlers, snobs etc. none of those words are being challenged by the 'Yes' posters.
What I'm saying, clumsily, is that generalisations and stereotyping can't be allowed to be challenged on one side and not the other.

feelingmellow · 06/09/2014 14:30

We were planning to visit Scotland in the autumn but after reading these thread I'm now worried that I won't be welcomed (I'm English married to a Scot)

PhaedraIsMyName · 06/09/2014 14:34

If I were to try and identify a trend, I'd say that very low information voters are more likely to vote no

Quite stunning really. Careful you don't get altitude sickness on your moral and intellectual highground.

Seriously it's comments like that and trying to suggest "No" (which is the official view of 3 of the 4 mainstream parties) is akin to being a member of the BNP which makes me think an independent Scotland won't be as warm and cuddly as the yessers are trying to make it sound.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 06/09/2014 14:36

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LadyCordeliaFlyte · 06/09/2014 14:37

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PhaedraIsMyName · 06/09/2014 14:39

Funny that you think this is 'made up'. I guess you're not that hot on social history.

Of course it was vociferously debated before all this blew up? Really? Where and when? DH 's back ground was Communist Clydesider and he'd never heard it until a few months ago either.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 06/09/2014 14:42

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IrnBruTheNoo · 06/09/2014 14:47

"so I would hope they manage to have stronger social skills (as in getting on with the typical variety of people you encounter) in real life."

What do you mean? People who earn over £80k?

deeedeee · 06/09/2014 14:48

You see Chelsy you always just turn this back to class, insults and money !

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 06/09/2014 14:48

I do find it quite strange that women who may be deemed financially successful by some i.e. earning around 80k per year have been given such a rough time of it here and there are such massive assumptions about not caring about a wider society. There also seems to be a misconception that if you earn that much you've been born with a silver spoon or had an advantaged upbringing.
My DH and I have both come from council house estates as did our parents and parents' parents; as a child we had hardly any furniture till I was about 6, as a teenager I was homeless for a time, I've done dead end jobs to get by, and worked 3 jobs to get by and had several stints of being unemployed. I worked in public sector on low pay and got into a niche role. Then I went into the private sector and swapped jobs every year to get as much experience as I could. Then I cut a break getting into a global firm and spent 8 years literally married to the job and doing business qualifications to progress until I had children. I then had my eyes opened wide to institutional sexism as a part time working mum in the professional consulting sector and it nearly did me in. It took me 2 years to find a new job in a firm that has a completely refreshing vision for part time women and now I am the head of a division that turns over a million a year.
I didn't get to a great salary overnight, it has taken me about 20 years and there have been as many downs as ups. And throughout that whole time I have volunteered to help unemployed young people, coached disadvantaged teenagers for job interview skills, chair the local community forum, supported the PTA, fundraise for medical charities.
So to those core of women talking utter shite about naice houses, silver spoons and I'm alright Jack, you really are showing yourself up. Lots of women working on high salaries have lived through poverty and go on to pay it back to society.

Numanoid · 06/09/2014 14:51

A lot of my English family live here, as well as many English friends, and none have ever experienced any problems. I have never heard any myself, but there will be some people who hold anti-English feeling the same as there are some English people who have anti-Scottish views.

If anyone did have a go at my family/friends for being English, I'd have something to say about it. Hmm Such a stupid reason to dislike someone.

prettybird · 06/09/2014 14:51

feelingmellow : don't let these threads put you off visiting. The vast majority of the debates in RL have been very well mannered, even if people have passionate views on both sides. Even in these threads, people have been able to agree to differ in most cases. Smile

It's much more easy to "lecture" in the anonymity of the Internet than when you are actually talking to someone in real life.

For most of us, life is still continuing as normal - with a few extra political discussions along the way.

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 06/09/2014 14:55

feelingmellow I am just back from the Highlands and never at any point had any anti-English sentiment, quite the opposite. I am sure you will have a great time.

IrnBruTheNoo · 06/09/2014 14:59

"very rough people who work in manual jobs "

Haha, right then. Do you live in a bubble?!

IrnBruTheNoo · 06/09/2014 15:02

So what you're saying Chelsy is that I don't have strong social skills because I don't socialise with people who earn in excess of £80k? That's a ridiculous argument if ever I've heard one!

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 06/09/2014 15:06

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feelingmellow · 06/09/2014 15:06

Numanoid, prettybird and shakes - Thanks- I'm sure you're right. I visit Scotland several times a year and apart from a few obnoxious comments, I've never felt unwelcome. However it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps this is not the time for a visit.

deeedeee · 06/09/2014 15:14

I'm certainly not derogatory of a woman earning 80k . Chelsy is just very insulting and always gets people annoyed and brings the conversation back to money.

I think we should all agree to not mention money or class and ignore anyone who does