to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

[grovel]

Well?

Not engaging, Lady Cordelia, except to say:

1 I'm married to an Englishman so clearly not anti-English
2 I don't have a whingeing gene nor do my family. We have all worked hard to establish ourselves in business and the professions, despite the obstacles earlier generations of the family faced

1. I welcome immigration to help build a prosperous Scotland. In my own small business, currently my staff happen to be either English or from the former Eastern bloc.

Anyway, ladies, am off now for some constructive campaigning. Have been having a very positive response...

"Even it's made up name annoys me "the common weal"

Funny that you think this is 'made up'. I guess you're not that hot on social history.

Chelsy and lady Cordelia, you know personally I'm all for you and find you hilarious, but you do tend to come on, post loads and loads, throw around a lot of contentios and insulting opinions and derail what can be a constructive and interesting debate. I wouldn't go so far as to definately say it's deliberate , but it's not useful in helping everyone understand each other even if we're not going to agree.

"Criseyde, my experience seems to directly contradict yours"

It may well. As I said, I'm not trying to claim that my experience is representative. Just that I know lots of affluent, high information voters who will be voting yes. And I know low information voters (both affluent and on relatively low incomes) who will be voting no.

I'm sure we all have completely different gauges on who is likely to vote yes or no. As I'd expect.

Altho lady c, that last post you posted was really spot on! Data is not the plural of anecdote indeed

I've seen that quote used a couple of times, it's really good (data/anecdote).

source

Please tell me what particular guff I have spouted, Flyte?

Apology accepted DeeeDeee. Please try to remember that people come to the decision they've reached for a whole host of reasons - it doesn't make us bad, or uncaring. Just different.

It's also, I think, quite difficult as a No voter to explain why you are a No. Any negative reason sees shouts of "project fear" - but fear and hope are two sides of a coin. Our own views of risk will determine where we land in terms of decision making. But fear isn't an illegitimate or shameful emotion. I don't think there is anything wrong with being fearful of what could happen post independence - to ourselves, our families, our communities or our country.

I hope an independent Scotland would be better, fairer, would protect the poorest. I fear it's economy would be hideously damaged and that those who would hurt most would be the most vulnerable. That's a perfectly reasonable assessment of the facts out there and the suggestions being made by the politicians. Not the only one,, but a reasonable one. Your hopes are stronger than your fears. My fears are stronger than my hopes.

"Well said, deeedeee! Of course we need to pay the bills, personally and as a country and I think that an independent Scotland in charge of its own economy could do that. But this referendum is about so much more. Why not raise your horizons and think about what a fairer society could be like. One in which you won't be sitting in your naice Edinburgh houses glorying in how well you are doing while down the road there are kids living in poverty in a country rich in natural assets but instead being part of a vibrant country where everyone gets the chance to have a decent quality of life?"

Ah another one that speaks sense!

"Why do you only talk about the poor, the unsuccessful, the downbeat, the downtrodden? "

Are you being serious??? Because these are the groups in society that need help and support! Not every comes out of the womb holding a silver spoon, you know! We don't all get the best start in life.

I'm beginning to wonder if certain posters are on these threads to troll...

More digs at "naice Edinburgh houses" "silver spoon"

Chip shoulder much

"So you don't think its worth even thinking about how to make things better? How depressing."

Itsallgoingtobefine I've said this before on the thread - it's the 'alright Jack' mentality that means some wealthy people can't be arsed finding out ways to help those less fortunate than themselves.

some people are coming over as really sanctimonious too

some people are coming over as really sanctimonious too

Oops, sorry WildThong

sc

Yep statistically I agree on one level it's fear vs hope.
Just aslong as you do me and other's like me the favour of realising that we're not just all hope and nae knickers, I'll return the favour and see through the fear.

Did you read the Kathi Weeks quote I posted a couple of threads back about the fearful subject and the hopeful subject? Want me to quote it again?

A no campaigner today stopped DM in the street to speak to her. The campaigner told DM that if we voted for independence there would be more immigration and all the foreigners would come in to take all our jobs. DM was a bit shocked and said that she liked immigration and thought it was good for Scotland. The no woman said "oh well, have a fucking good life then" and walked off.

I'm a bit stunned. So much for the Ayes being more racist than the Nos.

There are some fanatics out there hump and your DM obviously got a moron.

I was stopped by a Yes campaigner with the line "save the (devolved) NHS"!!! Some people will say anything to get you to vote their way and get angry when you don't agree.

I keep hearing this passive aggressive line about what a "wonderful! Vibrant! Debate" we are having in Scotland but what I'm seeing is deep division forming.

Interesting stuff none the less. Yes can't see you and Kathi agreeing in much lady c! :-)

I don't see it as quite that straightforward - I'm not all fear and no hope either.