to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

[grovel]

Well?

Kevin Bridges: Live at the Referendum on tonight BBC1 at 10.20pm.

Should be good!!

"Iggi and Criseyde - you're happy for people to be called other names which categorise them (white settler, rich, posh, English etc) but describing someone as rough is not on."

I've taken no part in this 80K 'debate' - other than a couple of posts suggesting that it was pretty useless - so don't lump me in with this nonsense.

Phaedra, as I stated very clearly, I'm not trying to say that the views I've encountered are representative. I can imagine we all encounter very different perspectives.

Nice try though.

"DH 's back ground was Communist Clydesider and he'd never heard it until a few months ago either."

I guess DH isn't very hot on social history either. Background notwithstanding.

IrnBruTheNoo, spotted that. Should be fun.

I think it would be fine, feelingmellow, apart from campaigners/stalls on the street no-one really brings up the referendum if you don't mention it. The only times I've experienced it outside of campaigning is people asking where I got my badge from, or saying they're voting similarly if they've seen it. And street campaigners won't bother you if you tell them you're not interested, if they ask to talk to you. :)

I think Kevin Bridges will be good too.

Ah the Red Clydeside, Mary Barbour is an inspiration to many. :)

Oh FGS

Scotlabd is a multicultural country and many, many English people live and work here.

Gosh - I can see why MN haven't yet put up their "pre-question" thread for the Darling/Salmond webchat. Each of these indyref threads are only lasting a few days before they fill up! [gosh]

That [gosh] was supposed to be ......

But gosh anyway!

This thread has been a bit odd. Where, in any of the Yes campaign's literature (by people who are directly affiliated and those who aren't) does it suggest that high earning women will be frowned upon/not supported/don't deserve respect?

Please link if you can.

And the suggestions that if you are educated to degree level, hardworking and female, Scotland doesn't want you? Again, please link.

I am a (Green) yes. I'm 28, I have a PhD (completed in 3 years, minor corrections) and I worked part time throughout my undergrad, Masters and PhD. I couldn't afford to pay for my postgrad study but got scholarships through hard work and intelligence. Now I'm working (and earn a quarter of this fabled 80k) but I don't think I'm earning what I do because Scotland doesn't support women like me. I could probably do another job and earn more, with my qualifications but I like my current job. One of the scholarships I received was specifically for female graduates

Baffled.

On twitter Rupert Murdoch seems to be hinting that tomorrow's Sunday Times poll will show Yes leading.

And the suggestions that if you are educated to degree level, hardworking and female, Scotland doesn't want you? Again, please link.

I'm agreeing with you Corey, I haven't seen anything to suggest this either. Have you heard of Academics For Yes? I've spoken with a few members, and have been asked to help out with campaigning (unfortunately not in my local area so couldn't make it). There are plenty female members.

I haven't felt oppressed (for want of a better word) in any way for being a female graduate. I've been invited by a local council to talk at a school for children interested in studying in the same field.

The only issue at the moment is that it's very hard for graduates to find well-paid jobs, but that's a non-gender-related issue.

tilliebob if you are still watching this thread to you. I keep trying to operate referendum news blackouts.

I think we should all agree to not mention money or class and ignore anyone who does

deeedeee is that so you don't have to answer my question "Would you accept an £80k job if offered?"

Corey it's the posters. Or are you just acting baffled for effect? I don't think you will find Chelsy or LadyCordelia's comments in official leaflets either. Tedious thread now.

The only issue at the moment is that it's very hard for graduates to find well-paid jobs, but that's a non-gender-related issue

Very true, Numanoid. I was signing on for a while after my PhD and the job centre was full of recent and not so recent graduates. I didn't even get interviews for many, many jobs before I found my current one. It's hard out there and I'm very fortunate.

I hadn't seen deeedeee's comment until you quoted it, SallyingForth, but I think it's a good idea. The class system is outdated and unnecessary anyway.

This thread has been a bit odd. Where, in any of the Yes campaign's literature (by people who are directly affiliated and those who aren't) does it suggest that high earning women will be frowned upon/not supported/don't deserve respect?

I don't think anyone has said that is the case. They're responding to several posters on the thread who have been incredibly offensive towards successful/high earning women. Not saying it's YES policy. Have a read back. Women who are doing OK or have managed to be successful told they don't understand, they don't know what poverty is, they only care about themselves, bla bla bla. You'll see enough of it if you look at last night I suspect.

I'm certainly not derogatory of a woman earning 80k . Chelsy is just very insulting and always gets people annoyed and brings the conversation back to money.

I haven't insulted anyone who earns 80k.

I think we should all agree to not mention money or class and ignore anyone who does

Aha! I detect a weak spot. You do pay tax, don't you deeedeee? You wouldn't be going around telling others to pay tax, but not pay it yourself then?

I don't think anyone has objected to successful women earning 80k+

I think the points were

1. 80k is more than 90% of population so in no way representative
2. People live in real poverty.

I don't want less high earners, I want every one to have enough to live properly on.

Chelsy stop picking on individuals - play the ball not the player etc etc

IrnBru So what you're saying Chelsy is that I don't have strong social skills because I don't socialise with people who earn in excess of £80k? That's a ridiculous argument if ever I've heard one!

No, what I'm saying is that you and some other posters give the impression that you struggle to get on with people and have never met a successful woman. I can't imagine how you would get on in the average environment that a typical woman in Scotland works in.

Remember that environment might well be comprised of different levels of workers, some earning lower, some higher. There may well be women at managerial level earning 80k or well above, and your comments really depress me because it seems utterly beyond your imagination that a woman might be entitled to such a salary by dint of her hard work and talent.

*1. 80k is more than 90% of population so in no way representative

1. People live in real poverty.*

But you can't have a society where you ignore or denigrate high earners because they don't fit into your nice little ideology where everyone is a victim and in need of help. A society is comprised of all sorts of different people, and no-one is more important than anyone else. I can't believe you go around calling yourselves socialists!

Whereas you Chelsy

But you can't have a society where you ignore or denigrate high earners because they don't fit into your nice little ideology where everyone is a victim and in need of help. A society is comprised of all sorts of different people, and no-one is more important than anyone else. I can't believe you go around calling yourselves socialists!

Show me the posts where anyone has said that?! You are twisting things to suit your own agenda.