in thinking breastfeeding needn't mean martyring yourself?

[kentishgirl]

Hi - sorry to start yet another bf thread, and I realise this might be contentious, but so many of the bf threads on here make me look like . I realise I'm probably a bit out of date with current thinking on all this, but bf sounds like so much hard work these days...and a little bit of me thinks some bf mums kind of enjoy being a martyr and it's competitive about how hard and such a sacrifice etc etc. This is not about mums who find it physically difficult or impossible to bf.

I bf in the 80s for 11 months. Babe had the odd bottle of formula if I wasn't around.

What puzzles me a bit is this stuff, that I read about on here a lot. Is this the reality now of bfing for everyone/most mums, or is this a minority who just talk about it a lot?

Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.

Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this? And isn't this awfully off-putting to new mums about starting to breastfeed?

I know more mums start breastfeeding these days, and that's great. But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it. Is the new 'baby led' attitude to bf a bit of a double edged sword because of this? More try, but it's harder, so more have to give up?

I can't really comment as I am currently pg with DC1, but I kind of hope YANBU because I really want to BF but it is the only thing I am anxious about!

It just seems to be so all-consuming and overwhelming when I read about it, in a way that the sleepless nights and other issues don't seem to be.

But then I get that people usually only post if having problems or if they are vv passionate about it, iyswim? So maybe YABU! I will get back to you in a few months

tbh it depends on the baby, all three of mine were different.
First difficult breastfeeding, but difficult to bottle feed too! Difficult to wean, eats well now
Second, fed well but two hourly feeds, swapped to formula, two hourly feeds :o easy to wean, is a right greedy pig
Third, breastfed well, couldn't get onto a bottle, pita to wean. Fussy eater

Not sure my post will help anyone :o

To the last two posters - I think that is sort of my point - you are being made to feel anxious about it. I don't think it was any harder or easier in the past - but the attitudes towards it weren't as complicated and there was less public emphasis (internet) about possible problems and difficulties. Less help available too though, which wasn't a good thing. I'm sure you'll be fine.

Some of the advice is good though. I know I took fenugreek to boost supply and woke up with boobs like dolly parton and was farting like a trooper

My mother raised 3 children in the 80s. When my LO was born she kept telling me how much easier things were for here, compared to my struggles.

She now does somee childcare for my 10 month old and admits that she has forgotten most of the difficult parts.

I wander how much you are remembering through rose tinted glasses.

So as much as your OP pissed me off, I do not think YABU, just that you have selective memory.

Have a little respect for people who didn't find it so "easy and simplistic" as opposed to implying their problems were self inflicted because they were "overthinking it".

writerwannabe83 I don't think anyone implied anyone's problems were sefl inlicted! There is so much advice thrown at new Mums that often you can get into a situation where you are constantly looking for answers based on what others do or don't do and move away from listening to your own instincts! It happened to me with my first,..trying to follow this routine and that routine,..and doing what people said I should or should not do!
I was reading books and getting myself anxious and confused and waiting for someone to tell me what to do.
With my second I ignored everything and just went with what I felt was ok,..It was a damn sight easier.

It can be very straightforward to bf, just as long as you are okay with unpredictability. People who like to plan to ease their anxieties can really struggle with this.

I did think that there was research saying that sleep tendencies were congenital and not created by the simply marvellous parenting of the no nonsense brigade.

The fact about babies is that they are small and helpless, and they are dependent on you whether you ff or bf. This is not something to fear.

Agree with that OutsSelf That is what caused problems for me with my first,..trying to plan and getting anxious about it all and trying to 'do it right' With my 2nd I tried to let go of being so much in control,..It wasn't plain sailing though.

I totally agree that there are those mothers who absolutely martyr themselves to their kids and are very vocal about it but at the same time I hope there is more support for new mothers getting to grips with breastfeeding now. I also agree that it probably wasn't any harder or easier 30 years ago but people either got on with it and/or formula fed and there wasn't the widespread judging or pearl clutching. And if there was, mum's didn't have to read about it on a website and feel bad about themselves!

I am lucky that I have had 2 babies who latched well and fed well and through my own research and my own mum reassuring me, I knew that the more my newborn fed, the quicker my milk would come in and I knew that if a baby sets up camp from 5pm-11pm he is cluster feeding and it's normal. But this information doesn't seem to be disseminated that freely, despite the party line that breast is best. Knowledge is power, and I felt much more confident in my feeding when I knew these little difficulties could be expected. If I didn't know about them, I would have found it much harder.

But the problem is that generally speaking you don't hear the stories from those mums who were able to nurse easily, the majority of the stories are those who have high needs/colicky babies who do struggle to nurse. Which is probably what makes pregnant and new mothers anxious, because all they read about are stories of breastfeeding hell.

It's not always like that of course, there are many mums who have found nursing "easy" (after the initial cracked, sore bleeding nipples that affects us all!) and these are normal experiences too.

I totally agree that there are those mothers who absolutely martyr themselves to their kids and are very vocal about it but at the same time I hope there is more support for new mothers getting to grips with breastfeeding now. I also agree that it probably wasn't any harder or easier 30 years ago but people either got on with it and/or formula fed and there wasn't the widespread judging or pearl clutching. And if there was, mum's didn't have to read about it on a website and feel bad about themselves!

I am lucky that I have had 2 babies who latched well and fed well and through my own research and my own mum reassuring me, I knew that the more my newborn fed, the quicker my milk would come in and I knew that if a baby sets up camp from 5pm-11pm he is cluster feeding and it's normal. But this information doesn't seem to be disseminated that freely, despite the party line that breast is best. Knowledge is power, and I felt much more confident in my feeding when I knew these little difficulties could be expected. If I didn't know about them, I would have found it much harder.

But the problem is that generally speaking you don't hear the stories from those mums who were able to nurse easily, the majority of the stories are those who have high needs/colicky babies who do struggle to nurse. Which is probably what makes pregnant and new mothers anxious, because all they read about are stories of breastfeeding hell.

It's not always like that of course, there are many mums who have found nursing "easy" (after the initial cracked, sore bleeding nipples that affects us all!) and these are normal experiences too.

I think that some people who BF babies in the 80s and who are now grandmothers find it frustrating that their grandchildren are BF 'every time they squeak' and consequently grandmother doesn't get to give the baby a cuddle/bottle of milk/water.

I've BF my baby on demand, which was v frequent in the early days, and once BF was established it has been a lovely experience - not inconvenient and not martyring in the slightest.

I'd also disagree - from my own personal experience - with 'babies just plain cry'. Not all of them do - mine very very rarely cries unless something is actually wrong.

You might as well have said "AIBU to think that childbirth doesn't have to be painful?"
I found bf really hard. I also found childbirth really hard. I am no martyr but I have been vocal about the difficulties I have had because this in itself can help other women know they are not alone. I also needed support. I
We are all different. You didn't have my baby. You don't have my tits. You are not me. You have no idea what my experience was like. Therefore any assumption that it is it isn't a certain way is utterly redundant.

YANBU. Although you will get slayed.

It never ceases to amaze me that some of the people who are the most avidly pro-breastfeeding on here are the ones who make it sound hellish.

I'm sure there have been threads on here where it's almost been a competition has to what the poster has suffered to breastfeed and how long they've had a baby attached to them without a break.

I think on one thread, people were even competing/comparing stories as to how long they had to go to the toilet while simultaneously breastfeeding.

I think the boot-camp breastfeeding coincides with the increasingly widespread idea on here that a baby must never be allowed to cry ever, otherwise they explode/will become a serial killer/will go to a non RG uni.

Thurlow, you are totally right - breastfeeding isn't just food, and as you don't have to worry about overfeeding you don't have to restrict it. It's one of the most convenient things about breastfeeding
Like Quodlibet, neither of mine "just plain cried" because if they were upset about something I didn't have to do loads of jiggling and distracting, I breastfed them and could continue whatever I was doing. A boob solves pretty much everything except a nappy needing changing ime - hunger obviously, but also if they are tired it put them to sleep, upset, overwhelmed, overstimulated, bored, restless, needed a cuddle etc etc.

non RG uni I love that.

I was a keen breastfeeder of both my babies (now in their teens) and I do understand what you're saying to an extent.

I read a lot of threads now where it seems apparent that, particularly overnight, many mums seem to be prepared to feed on the hour or whenever the baby stirs. Some of these babes are months old, not days or weeks and the Mums are exhausted. This to me seems excessive and, dare I say it, unnecessary. I get the distinct impression that it's habit-feeding rather than nutrition and there's such pressure to be an 'attachment parent' that they allow this to continue when there are strategies available to reduce it.

I think it's the opposite dotdot - the social pressure is to do controlled crying and have the baby sleeping through! Mums that are feeding all night long have chosen to parent that way, and that's a perfectly valid choice.

I agree, it's a valid choice hollie, but then you have mums coming on here who are so exhausted that they can't function because they are a 24hr feeding/dummy machine. That might be ok when someone has no other life outside their baby, and if we were primates who could eat and sleep around our babies then it would fine. Most people have other aspects to their lives, especially when their babes are past the newborn stage. I did when I had my 2nd baby and I had to look after a toddler and drive places most days. I couldn't afford to be up several times during the night and still be safe during the day. It's a bit of Utopian notion that you can suckle your baby all night for months/years without something having to give.

Ok, so I had my first DC in the 90's, but it was precisely attitudes like the OP's that meant Bf wasn't successful for me. I thought that my babies were too hungry as they wanted to be on the breast all the time and the midwives agreed with me. Fast forward twenty years and the internet meant I realised this was normal behaviour for a baby and I managed to BF my DD for 26 months and DS until just recently at 10 months, when I had to stop for medical reasons.

But who has ever said that you you should be suckling your baby all night if you don't want to dotdot?

But who has ever said that you you should be suckling your baby all night if you don't want to

It's the AP way isn't it Hollie? but a couple of years down the line you have a mum who hasn't had a full night of sleep since giving birth, and a toddler who can't self-soothe. Neither are generally the happiest of people, as far as I can make out on here anyway.

I don't know exactly what the "AP" way is, but surely people just choose the way that works best for them?

I don't get the big deal either.
After the first few weeks which hurt like fuck. BFing is lovely. Sit on sofa, snuggle baby, toddler, small child. Read to big sister, admire Duplo creations, drink tea, watch TV kids if DD1 is about, adults with subtitles at night. Learn to eat one handed.

Absolutely nothing to fuss about.

Yanbu.

And I've never worked out what this self soothing nonsense is. Seems a huge fuss about nothing.

If your there you BF child to sleep, if your out baby eats yoghurt and goes to sleep for DH (total bottle refuser, who won't drink milk).

No big deal