in thinking breastfeeding needn't mean martyring yourself?

[kentishgirl]

Hi - sorry to start yet another bf thread, and I realise this might be contentious, but so many of the bf threads on here make me look like . I realise I'm probably a bit out of date with current thinking on all this, but bf sounds like so much hard work these days...and a little bit of me thinks some bf mums kind of enjoy being a martyr and it's competitive about how hard and such a sacrifice etc etc. This is not about mums who find it physically difficult or impossible to bf.

I bf in the 80s for 11 months. Babe had the odd bottle of formula if I wasn't around.

What puzzles me a bit is this stuff, that I read about on here a lot. Is this the reality now of bfing for everyone/most mums, or is this a minority who just talk about it a lot?

Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.

Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this? And isn't this awfully off-putting to new mums about starting to breastfeed?

I know more mums start breastfeeding these days, and that's great. But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it. Is the new 'baby led' attitude to bf a bit of a double edged sword because of this? More try, but it's harder, so more have to give up?

Water? you gave water to a BF baby? Fine if after 6 months, but bf babies don't need water

And to be fair we probably didn't hear about the babies that did cluster feed in previous generations. There was very little breastfeeding support and online forums didn't exist to discuss this stuff.

Cluster feeding and feeding tiny babies "just" for comfort are both perfectly normal and natural aspects of breast-feeding. Yes, doing it can be difficult and limiting but wanting to do the right thing by your baby doesn't make you a martyr.

Your experience of breast-feeding doesn't sound particularly wonderful to me. Agree with the PP who said you were trying to force the formula feeding model onto a breastfed baby. That sounds far more of a ballache than feeding on demand to be perfectly honest.

Also, FF babies can be fed on demand too - there's a misconception that FF means so many ml every x hours. Not the case.

Oh and I never gave mine water because they were bottle refusers. I tend to agree that babies don't need water.

I did demand FF and it definitely wasn't a nice simple every-three-hours job.

I think those threads are about handholding because bf can be so unpredictable. I've never met a woman whom I assumed was bfing because of martyrdom. I have met lots of panicked and tired women whose description of mothering in the first few months could be offputting, if you didn't take in in the context that they were tired, hormonal, and having to completely rewrite their idea of who they were and what their life was like in a culture that is pretty judgemental towards every single choice that they make as a mother. Add into that the fact that many aren't really sure what it's meant to look and feel like, and the cultural babies as absolutely helpless and not capable of communicating whether they are tried as opposed to hungry, it's no wonder that many of them are sorrowful dictating on the minute details of the previous two weeks and trying to make a story out of it that make them sound and feel like they are doing a good job. Cut them some slack, I say. Why is it you thing bfers should not be allowed to be anxious and rationalise their experience?

Other thread suggestions:

"Why are all these mothers posting about sleep problems? My babies slept through the night from birth, are babies different these days?"

"My children ate a varied diet with no problems. In the 80s we just didn't have fussy eaters"

I did demand FF and it definitely wasn't a nice simple every-three-hours job.

Very true. I looked after my niece when she was a few weeks old (my SIL was very ill) and she was FF on demand. It was a huge amount of work just maintaining the supply of fresh formula, washing bottles, sterilising etc.

Erm some mums have babies not gaining enough weight so they have no choice but to "martyr" themselves.

Lucky you you didn't.

Well I felt like a martyr for breastfeeding as I bloody hated it :o

I first bfed a baby 24 years ago when I was 18. I had no buzz words to use or Internet advice to make me feel unsure or neurotic. The baby was hungry, I fed him.

I think there's too much advice and not enough intuition. It doesnt seem to be ok to trust in your ability to feed your child these days.

Yes, I am aware I sound like an old bag.

Thank god someone has just said what I've been thinking for ages. Well done OP, I feel you may be right about some people, possibly the vocal minority.

yanbu. Was just thinking the same. I don't give over large parts of my life to breastfeeding. I just do it, finish the feed and get on with my day. Sometimes mine cluster feed which is annoying but I just carry on doing my emails, chatting to DH, eating dinner, reading to other dc, or feed on the go with baby in sling. Breastfeeding really hasn't affected my life majorly and I have fed my children for ages. I think some mums who do find it tedious, time consuming and life consuming maybe overthink it? I'm sure it doesn't really matter how you feed them though, as long as everyone is healthy and happy!

Yep, my mum did all the jiggling/water etc because we couldn't possibly be hungry.

Seems a lot of faff to me. Sure you weren't just martyring yourself to the rules of that particular time?

How you feed your baby is your business and each method has its difficulties. My baby would take w bottle when he was a small baby but rejected it at six weeks. This was verydifficult and led to an issue with separation anxiety if I left him. I formula fed twins and spent my time washing bottles whilst the twins were taken away by people thinking they were giving me a break. The amount of unsolicited advice I was given was gobsmacking. I felt I had to justify myself all the time and probably came across as a matyr. Why can't we just stand by people and help them with their choice? Sick of seeing tge debate tbh!

I'd never heard of cluster feeding, yet the night dd was born she fed for 9 hrs and screamed blue murder if I took her off. Likewise I had never heard of growth spurts but sure enough when after a couple of weeks I had 48 hrs without dd leaving my breast and completely frantic to get back on if she came off, she put on 8oz in 5 days which was a lot for her and turned out to be her first growth spurt. It wasnt a self fulfilling prophecy as I only heard the terms once I has researched what on earth was going on with my dd at these times. In terms of being a martyr, when you are a first time mum with no experience but are repeatedly told how its the best thing you can do for your baby and thayou try really hard. It is so hard, but when you also keep getting told its about to get easier, just round the corner, it feels defeatest to give up without seeing if it really does get easier first.

How lovely it was so easy for all of you.That's right the rest of us are just overthinking it when finding it a nightmare.What a nasty self satisfied thread.

'Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.'

-the clue is 'once feeding is established'. Yes, once you're established they feed roughly every 2-3 hours. Before that, early days cluster feeding. Sometimes.

'If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.'

- yes I think that's what most people do. Except give the water, which is not recommended now. Babies do plain old cry and I think someone bfing is generally well aware of reading a baby's true cues.

'Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.'

-yes that sounds about normal.

'Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this?'

- I think it's just you.

It's a bit like posting 'Is it just me, or is absolutely every woman in the country in the thrall of a hideous MIL who wants nothing more than to see them dead?' Threads reflect the extremes of life, really.

Without breastfeeding, I don't think I would have been able to have as much freedom and portability as I did during the first 6 months of my DCs' lives. We could go places without even thinking about nutrition. It made life loads easier, and I liked it. I appreciate it's not like that for everyone, and that also not everyone wants to bf, but martyrdom? Err, no. Although to read the current anti-bf sneerfest currently underway on another thread, you wouldn't think so. It's crap like that that I hope doesn't put someone off breastfeeding, quite frankly.

Maybe it would be nice if people could stop belittling other people. It's a very rare person who actually enjoys martyring themselves to the detriment of their baby's health.

The rest of us are just trying to do the best we can to do the best we can by our babies.

If a friend came to me and wanted to talk about how hard breastfeeding was and how long it took etc, I would be sympathetic and kind and try to offer helpful advice. I wouldn't say - "well I found it easy, what on earth are you making such a fuss about?!"

YABU and it sounds like you don't know an awful lot about the mechanics of breastfeeding & up to date information that we KNOW NOW and didn't, perhaps, when you had yours.

We don't have a hugely supportive bf culture & you are contributing to it.

I've got a list as long as my arm of parenting issues I found easy which I others don't.Perhaps I should start a few smug threads and suggest martyrdom.

you didn't have internet in the 80's did you? no forums where people could ask for advice etc

plus those posting for advice and support are more likely to those who find it harder so it skews it to give a perspective that more are finding it hard.

ps you really cannot speak for all the people in the 80's as it is limited to you and your friend's experiences.