in thinking breastfeeding needn't mean martyring yourself?

[kentishgirl]

Hi - sorry to start yet another bf thread, and I realise this might be contentious, but so many of the bf threads on here make me look like . I realise I'm probably a bit out of date with current thinking on all this, but bf sounds like so much hard work these days...and a little bit of me thinks some bf mums kind of enjoy being a martyr and it's competitive about how hard and such a sacrifice etc etc. This is not about mums who find it physically difficult or impossible to bf.

I bf in the 80s for 11 months. Babe had the odd bottle of formula if I wasn't around.

What puzzles me a bit is this stuff, that I read about on here a lot. Is this the reality now of bfing for everyone/most mums, or is this a minority who just talk about it a lot?

Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.

Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this? And isn't this awfully off-putting to new mums about starting to breastfeed?

I know more mums start breastfeeding these days, and that's great. But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it. Is the new 'baby led' attitude to bf a bit of a double edged sword because of this? More try, but it's harder, so more have to give up?

How lovely it was so easy for all of you.That'sht the rest of us are just overthinking it when finding it a nightmare.What a nasty self satisfied thread.

I don't think people are overthinking it at all. However, to say that people who breastfeed their babies on demand are 'martyrs' isn't correct either. Some people do find it easier than others. No 2 babies are the same and neither are 2 mothers. I posted my personal experience because I don't want breastfeeding mothers to think they're doing it all wrong and being 'martyrs' because their baby cluster feeds or is comforted by a quick feed.

The fact is that the way the mother's body regulates it's milk supply in the early days is dictated by the feeding pattern of the baby. Most of what the OP has described is entirely normal feeding behaviour of a young baby, who is simply doing what comes naturally.

I definitely wasn't a martyr to breastfeeding, I did it because it was so much easier than washing/sterilising etc and also because it's best for the baby. I was lucky that I found it easy on the whole, however my DD did cluster feed for the first 12 weeks (7pm- 10pm ish), and didn't start going 2-3 hours between feeds until she was about 6 months old! Didn't mean I gave up having a life though, in fact it made having a life easier as we just went wherever we wanted to go with very little equipment and if she was grumpy/grizzly I fed her and carried on with my day!

I first bfed a baby 24 years ago when I was 18. I had no buzz words to use or Internet advice to make me feel unsure or neurotic. The baby was hungry, I fed him.

I think there's too much advice and not enough intuition. It doesnt seem to be ok to trust in your ability to feed your child these days.

Yes, I am aware I sound like an old bag.

I must be an old bag too UriGellar.

I think it's more difficult in some ways now because there are so many resources to call upon and so many "right" ways to do things. There was some advice when I had children, but mostly you trusted your instincts and muddled through. There was no one on the internet ready to tell you what a bad parent you were for this or that. For the most part if your friends thought you were getting in wrong they bit their lips and kept quiet. Now everyone has an opinion. Me included.

Yabu.

Great that bf worked easily for you, see it as a blessing. Feeding on demand is good as it helps establish milk supply during the army weeks and months.

Your post is way too generalising simplistic and is just another "it used to be much better in my time" attitude. Some women struggle with feeding, some don't and need support. What you read on mn is probably more extreme or sounds negative because people who don't have any problem don't post here to say how easy peasy their bf experience is which would be shot down as a stealth boast anyway.

In the old days babies also used be superheated for their mums at birth and slept in separate infant rooms at the hospital. I doubt that that was particularly healthy or helpful for establishing bf or bonding. Also pnd was not widely recognised then but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen, of course it did.

So yes yabu and a bit smug.

*superheated I hope not.
Separated at birth.

And if we didn't get on with bf we put the baby first and ff so it wasn't hungry and distressed.

Really, Arabella? Because my tiny, tongue tied DD1 had lots of trouble breastfeeding especially as I had low supply due to nearly dying in childbirth. We pushed through, though, got some specialised help, and BFing ended up working beautifully for us. For us, in our situation, that WAS putting baby first. Your comment is really inflammatory to women who have overcome serious issues with feeding, have a think about how you come across.

OP, I think the big difference between 'your day' and now is the internet, as maddening stated above. Peer support, lactation consultants and groups like the LLL all existed 30 years ago too. Breastfeeding has always come easy for some and not so easy for others.

I was the knackered martyr at the start! Baby was never off my boob, fed ALL the time and couldn't be put down without crying, wouldn't take a bottle or a dummy - it seemed to be on my boob all the bloody time! I was knackered, could do nothing and lost loads of weight.

Later it was easy peasy and great for the many trips and holidays we took, was cheaper, less faff with bottles etc. but looking back at the first few months can understand why some folk opt for FF.

Go you, OP. Smug much?

I was wondering about the superheated, lol.

sorry if I sounded smug. It wasn't my intention. Actually I found bfing difficult at first, with cracked and bleeding nipples, and pain, so wouldn't judge anyone for having problems. there were times when I just sat and cried the whole day over it all. I did say my post wasn't a dig at anyone who found breastfeeding difficult or impossible.

Quite a few YANBUs as well though.

I take on board that we didn't have the internet then, there was less feedback and discussion on what you were doing, whether you are right or wrong etc. Maybe that was my point underneath it all? If I'd read about bfing on here when I was pregnant, I'd have been put right off the idea. There are so many posts that seem to be saying you WILL be tied to your baby for months, you WONT be able to go out for the evening, you WILL be your babies main carer and source of food/comfort/everything for months. I agree that the easiest way to handle a crying baby is to pop on the breast - I said that myself - instead of the jiggling/playing/distracting thing. But the point is that anyone can do the jiggling/playing/distracting thing, it's not putting 100% responsibility and work on the mum. So I feel there's more pressure on mums to be perfect and do the lot single-handedly these days, and I don't think that's a good thing. It sounds so exhausting, to me.

YABU.

With the benefit of being a second baby, I went with the flow with DS2. By demand feeding, my supply responded to his needs and I spent less time feeding him than I did DS1. 6 hours of cluster feeding? Great, because the next day, he'd reward me by being wonderfully settled and I'd get more time to myself than usual.

Those 4 hourly schedules of the 80s (and still the early noughties, unfortunately) were a big reason for many breastfeeding relationships to break down. Spending a long evening with a baby attached, remote control in one hand is a lot less stressful than ignoring a baby that's screaming because it's 90 minutes before you're supposed to feed him again.

Actually, being able to pop them instantly on the boob to comfort them, keep them quiet was one of the bonuses - but it was a double edged sword.

I haven't really noticed that many threads saying it will be so hard and such a sacrifice?

There are threads from people having problems, wanting advice/support

There have been threads about formula feeding where people have said they found bfing too difficult and used formula instead

But not threads saying it's always going to be really hard, non-stop feeding and you can never go out.

YANBU, I am still bfing my toddler and people are stunned including my doctor

Babies were weaned at 16 weeks in the 80s!

YANBU, I feel the same when I read about or talk to other BFing mothers (not all). I BFed DS1 for 2 years, currently BFing 4 month old. Neither of them have ever had a bottle of anything, but it hasn't been hard work in the slightest. They have both been quick but efficient feeders so it doesn't take ages. I remember with DS1 if I mentioned I was still breastfeeding over the age of 1, people would assume that meant on demand, through the night (as often that's what they did). I never did that, but long term BFing seems to be associated with extreme demand feeding!
Not sure if I got lucky or if other mothers and making different choices.

Well, I've bf 3 dc's and yes it did restrict me. But babies do that however you feed them.

And when I was ebf, yes it did mean I didn't go out without them but in the scheme of things it wasn't a great portion of my life I hope.

So I didn't feel a martyr to it but it did place restrictions on me.

I think the difference between now and in the 80s is the attitude towards formula feeding. It wasn't as stigmatised as it is now. That, promoted a more relaxed feeding culture in the whole, as it wasn't such an awful thing to have to switch to formula or supplement with it. When you're not breastfeeding under a lot of stress and pressure to succeed (as to not succumb to formula use), you're less likely to.

That's my feeling, anyway.. I bf ds, 5years ago, for 3 awful and disastrous months (I had genuine milk supply problems due to EMCS and PND, also DS had GERD and eventually thrived on thickened formula). I felt like such a massive failure and a disgrace to not provide him with "the best" when I finally saw sense and switched to ff.

I breastfed my 2nd child whenever he seemed to want a feed. It worked itself out. If he cried I offered him the breast - sometimes he took it other times he didn't.
Neither of us 'knew' what we were doing but I did not have a 'name' for my method of feeding.
Demand feeding sounds,..well demanding,..and cluster feeding? That sounds imposing too.

I think Mums can over worry and overthink it and seek too much advice, often conflicting advice. If you set out with a method I think you set yourself for a fail and then feeling helpless if that 'method' does not work.
I also think we sometimes expect everything to work too quickly.

It is trial and error and all babies settle into different ways of feeding.

As for 'baby led' feeding - certainly in the first weeks getting established it has to be baby-led. I can never understand when mums expect a baby to have a minimal impact on their usual life.

Why do you assume that everyone had the same experience as you?

Pointless self-congratulatory thread.

YABU - and a little bit smug really.

Want a pat on the back do you?

Have a little respect for people who didn't find it so "easy and simplistic" as opposed to implying their problems were self inflicted because they were "overthinking it".

I'm going to say that you are possibly NBU because the impression I got, before having a baby, from reading sites like MN was that breast-feeding might be almost constant, you will be their only source of food and comfort etc. And that impression was one of the main reasons I made the decision to FF, because I felt instinctively that being the only person solely responsible, if feeding was going to take up that much time, wouldn't be very good for my mental health.

But I have no experience of breastfeeding, so I can't comment on anything but the impression of what it is like.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

This is interesting because for some reason this crossed my mind randomly the other day. The thought that many breastfed babies I have been around have been put on the breast when they start to cry. With formula feeding, offering more food wasn't often my first response to my baby crying, I'd try a few other things first before moving on to more food. Sometimes they were crying for other things, sometimes they were crying for food. I can well imagine though that a) being on the breast is comforting for babies, no matter why they are crying and b) that offering food when it is that easy would come higher on the list. But I was idly wondering whether sometimes bf babies were crying for something other than food, but were calmed by the breast? Not that I mean it is a bad thing. Just wondering.

I do understand what you are saying OP. When I BF my DS 16 years ago I fed frequently for the first couple of weeks and then spaced the feeds out to about every 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 hours. He slept a shortish night at 8 weeks and a 12 hour night without any feeding at 12 weeks. I too have read lots of threads about mums feeding every couple of hours night and day when their babies were 4/5 months old and wasn't sure if either I was lucky or if things really have changed.

I imagine that if you breastfed in the 80's you would probably have forgotten some of the smaller day to day challenges or hurdles. We're three decades on and some of the details of what you remember may very well have been lost or just simply glossed over.

I'm about to become a ftm and although I really want to breastfeed it does seem scary and I wonder about how much time and commitment it will need when ff is comparatively easier. I'd like to think that people around me will encourage me even when I moan or find it difficult. My dm wasn't encouraged to breastfeed me in the 80's and is quite discouraging which I find tiring. I hope she is more positive when the baby is here.