in thinking breastfeeding needn't mean martyring yourself?

[kentishgirl]

Hi - sorry to start yet another bf thread, and I realise this might be contentious, but so many of the bf threads on here make me look like . I realise I'm probably a bit out of date with current thinking on all this, but bf sounds like so much hard work these days...and a little bit of me thinks some bf mums kind of enjoy being a martyr and it's competitive about how hard and such a sacrifice etc etc. This is not about mums who find it physically difficult or impossible to bf.

I bf in the 80s for 11 months. Babe had the odd bottle of formula if I wasn't around.

What puzzles me a bit is this stuff, that I read about on here a lot. Is this the reality now of bfing for everyone/most mums, or is this a minority who just talk about it a lot?

Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.

Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this? And isn't this awfully off-putting to new mums about starting to breastfeed?

I know more mums start breastfeeding these days, and that's great. But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it. Is the new 'baby led' attitude to bf a bit of a double edged sword because of this? More try, but it's harder, so more have to give up?

What is the physical difference between giving a quick bf which gives a baby the food and liquids it needs and giving it water? Wouldn't it be harder to sterilise a bottle, boil and cool water and get it into the baby rather than pop out a boob and feed it?

If giving it water shuts it up that suggests it was still hungry and has had it's tiny stomach filled with useless water rather than food/liquid the boob is designed to provide.

Yabu.

I found breastfeeding incredibly easy, no pain, ds gained weight really well, I didn't leave him when he was tiny but then I didn't feel inclined to leave him until he was older, I did enjoy the occasional glass or two of wine as such a miniscule amount of alcohol goes into the milk, I fed ds whenever he cried but breastfeeding feels lovely so it was nice to feed him.

Saying bf was easy/enjoyable/easier than formula feeding just comes across as smug, like the people who say they had a sneeze labour, people who find breastfeeding easy are unlikely to post threads saying "bf is easy! Aibu?"

I'm currently 8 months pregnant and "still" feeding ds, I intend to feed both him and the new baby for as long as they want, I don't see myself as a martyr, breastfeeding makes my life easier rather than harder.

I don't have children but when I recently spent the day with my friend and she spent about 4.5hrs of a 7 hr visit (she lives a way away so have to go for several hours to make it worth the trip) constantly breastfeeding her 4 month old I did think bloody hell that looks like hard work!.

Friend says it's normal for her DS (2nd ebf DC) and didn't seem bothered at all.

If I thought I'd spend so much time bf it would put me off to be honest.

Interesting reading ikea and MrsBoldon's posts - I think there's an idea that breastfeeding is difficult or unpleasant, so doing it often is really hard work and those who do must be martyrs. But actually after the first couple of weeks breastfeeding wasn't any harder for me than giving the baby a cuddle really.

Generally we think of cuddling babies as a lovely thing to do though. If someone said they'd been with a friend who had spent 4 hours out of 7 cuddling her 4 month old baby I'm not sure anyone would call that hard work?

Exactly hollie! Cussling your baby, with the added bonus of being unable to physically do anything else so other people have to bring you cups of tea/do the washing up.

Possibly it will be harder with a toddler and a newborn to feed but I could always wonder around breastfeeding I didn't need to be specially positioned on the sofa with cusions, the first time the hv came to visit I was breastfeeding on the sofa and stood up with ds still attatched and met her at the door, she was half horified and half impressed.

I spend loads of time breastfeeding D.S (5mo) but I don't feel like a martyr at all. I love it - he's my second and I think it's lovely for him to have something special just for him when so much of my attention is on D.D (2.8yo). I've been really lucky that both my children took to breastfeeding easily and it's suited our family. But obviously I wouldn't write a post about that - because why would I? People use forums like this to get advice when they're struggling. There are lots of threads about problems with relationships - that doesn't mean there are no happy marriages or lovely MILs. I'm sure some people have always struggled with breastfeeding because whatever way you feed a baby it is tiring and demanding. So, on balance I think YABU.

YANBU.

IMO you're right that it is the 'minority who just talk about it a lot' who are the martyrs.

I also have noticed that on here it seems to be an 'all or nothing' choice, whereas in real life most mothers I've come across in the last 10 years have mixed bf and ff either from the start or sometime later.

Personally I bf to start with and gradually 'swap in' ff over time, stopping bf after about a year. I expressed or ff if I fancied a night out or didn't want the café customers seeing my boobs. That's just me though... there isn't one right way.
I have friends who ff because they didn't like the idea of bf or couldn't do it, and other friends who loved it so much they carried on until their baby was 3. Each to our own and all their kids are lovely.

My idea was to do both with ds4 from the beginning, which I did until he was about 12 weeks and had other ideas. He has refused a bottle since and won't take any milk unless it's straight from the boob.

It's a pita as he also refuses to sleep unless he's put down straight after a feed which means noone else can deal with him at night.

However he is 18 months now so it won't be long before he can be reasoned with and then hopefully we can work on him going to sleep without it.

Theyre only small for a short time, before you know it they are going out clubbing and you don't know where they are from one weekend to the next and you've forgotten lots of the hard work of having little ones ( looks at ds1 19)

Unless like me you do it all over again, more than once!

Hollie : I didn't think it looks difficult or unpleasant at all. Just very time consuming!.

For me, it wouldn't be a bonus being physically unable to do anything else for hours. But that's just me.

However you feed a baby, you do tend to spend a lot of time feeding or just holding them in the first few months. They are pretty time consuming!

I think the difference with the being unable to do anything for hours comes with FF making it possible to ask someone else to feed the baby.

I found most of the mums in my ante-natal club a bit weird because they all seemed to want to be able to get back on the booze ASAP and start going on the razz. Alsontheybwere so overly obsessed with getting back to their pre-baby weight and fitness. Some of them even left their children to go away on holiday. Don't meant sound contentious but thought I would mention it anyway

I didn't read that the OP was accusing ALL BFing mothers as martyrs.

FWIW, I think I did martyr myself to BFing a bit. I found it v hard to begin with, but after a horrible birth and post-birth experience it felt like it was the only thing I'd succeeded in. But I only expressed this to myself or my partner, and it really didn't take long (3mo?) until I was in the swing of things and able to go with the flow a bit more.

I don't think youre being unreasonable.
I feel like I've seen a lot of posters expressing dismay and/or outrage that their friend/SIL/work has invited them to something when DC will still be EBF - as if there can be no flexibility whatsoever.

I HATED being tied to DS all the time. I expressed and bottle fed from 5weeks.
Best decision I ever made.
For DP too.

I mean I expressed a single bottle a day for DP to give. Not exclusively pumped! I'm faaaaaaaaar too lazy for that!

I had this very conversation with my daughter in law yesterday, she's breast feeding my 4th of grandchild, he's 9 months old now. The other 4 were also breast fed.

I also breast fed 5 children, one of them for 2 years and 9 months, but if I had to breast feed nowadays I think I'd last a couple of days if I even got as far as getting started.

Ive never believed it was the most natural thing in the world because the reality is it can be bloody hard, but when did it become as hard as it appears to be nowadays? I listen to my girls talking at times and I think dear god when did it come to this?

Also, why are women afraid to stop breast feeding if its not going well, why is their worth wrapped up in how much they are willing to contend with for the sake of saying oh yes the wee one is breast fed, why are women considered to be less of a mum if the chose to FF or do both breast and bottle, but most of all why are women doing a number on other women and using breast feeding as their weapon of choice?

Oh wow, yesiam, not judgmental and bitchy at all

The vast majority of women use formula so I'm not sure how women can be "considered to be less of a mum" if they use it I'm not sure I know anyone who didn't use formula.

Cariad what is hard for daughters that wasn't a problem for you?

Cluster feeding, in the evening, is normal physiological infant behaviour and has been around for a lot, lot longer than the 80's. It doesn't have much to do with "current thinking"

kellymom.com/parenting/parenting-faq/fussy-evening/

It's great to hear you had a relaxed and positive experience, but not everyone does and yeah things are different and fewer people will have really seen breastfeeding or know much about it, until they're about to try do it!

Crying is a late sign of hunger in a baby. They indicate they need to be fed earlier by other signs, and it's a lot easier to feed a baby that's not got to that stage.

Falling asleep is a sign of a baby that is full (unless they're weak and not gaining and there's a supply issue) so there's no need to wake them up. It won't affect when next they feed. Breastmilk production works differently in different women, and that greatly affects how frequently a baby needs to feed. Some breastfeeding mothers can feed their babies every 3 hours with no problem for either baby or mum. For others, that would lead to a very hungry baby and lower supply in the mother. It really just depends and it's nothing you did that meant 3 hours worked; the women whose babies needed to feed every 90 minutes at times, probably just stopped breastfeeding, leaving the ones who found it easier and whose babies slotted into life remaining. See 'Storage capacity' about halfway down this page: kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-prep/milkproduction/

Giving water to a baby under 6 months old is dangerous - so I guess in that way, medical knowledge has moved on because that did used to be advised.

Also, nursing at the breast is not just about transfer of _ml of milk. Nothing wrong, in fact completely how it should be, with a baby getting comfort from nursing. They'll take as much milk as they need and switch to non-nutritive sucking when they need to.

Of course people post on here when they have a question or a problem or anxiety, so yes I think it's a skewed view. And memories from 30 odd years ago get rosier too with time

Cariads There are many reasons why breastfeeding is a lot harder for women today.

MrsBoldon Ahhh, but I think FF looked about 100 times harder than BF in multiple ways. I'm very grateful that breastfeeding worked out because it was so much easier. If breastfeeding is going well, it's really so not hard work.

ff is easier in so far as dh can do it.

Formula being easier because someone else can do it really depends on individual circumstances. If you are the parent doing the vast majority of the childcare it probably isn't that helpful, if there is another adult around a lot and doing 50% of the childcare and related work then it makes formula much more attractive.