How can I ever forgive my mother in law?

[Rosebear]

Ok, this is long. And goes back over a few years. It's all re surfacing now as we are having another baby in 2 weeks.

My MIL was awful when I had my first child 5 years ago. For the last 2 weeks I've been re living the first year of my DD's life and can't stop feeling massive anger towards my MIL. I repressed my feelings back then, thought it was me being unreasonable, and now I am so angry she took advantage when I was vulnerable. Completely manipulated me as I was trying to find my feet as a new mum.

Brief history is my DH and I had a baby 18 mths after meeting. We knew we were meant for each other the day we met, and DH proposed and asked me to move in within 3 months. I chose not to move in then (felt it was too soon) but did move in when I was 3 months pregnant. We remained engaged for a few years and married after our daughter was born.

DH has a big family, 5 siblings. 2 older sisters with no children/un married/early 40's. Our daughter is the first grandchild on both sides. In my family I lost my mum to mental illness at 16 and my dad died in my 20's. I have no siblings but am close with my large extended family.

My MIL's behaviour changed when I became pregnant. It began with inviting herself to our scans and assuming she would be in the delivery room. She came to the scans and sat holding DH's hand and didn't utter a word to me. I felt like rent a womb! She knew we didn't want to find out sex but pointed to screen saying "it's definitely a boy, I can see something!".

She was not taking no for an answer on being there at the birth and DH would not stand up to her. He won't stand up to his parents, and is deeply entrenched/conditioned to his family way of life (they all overstep boundaries massively). So we agreed he would not tell her when I went into labour and only call her after baby was born. She turned up at the hospitial immediately, crying, in a state, picked up my daughter from her cot without asking me and held her, weeping, ignoring me.

I went home that night. The next day MIL was over, and spent the next few weeks crying to everyone that I was 'keeping her away from her grandchild' because we said we only wanted visitors every other day. I had a very traumatic delivery and was damaged, bleeding and all sorts. I felt scared and threatened by my MIL, she talked about my baby as though she was the mother. My MIL still visited every single day for the first week and wanted to do bedtime every night.

Over the first weeks I had massive pressure from DH's sister and father to 'give baby to MIL'. She would never communicate with me directly, and always ignored me when I talked about baby's routine or how I was doing things. She is a mother of 5 and was insulted I would even dare to tell her about my way! She wanted sleep overs at her house, first bath, bedtime bottles almost every night, just way too much for me. She wanted a baby seat in her car - where was she going to take her?! She bought all the first clothes, literally everything down to nappies and nappy cream. She chose christening outfit and first birthday outfit. I let her do all this to keep the peace. She openly disliked the name we chose for DD and refused to pronounce it properly for a few weeks. It's a very easy name to pronounce.

After a couple of months I was pressured into letting MIL look after DD once a week for the day. I never felt liked by her or accepted by her and thought if I do this maybe she will like me and we can forge a relationship. She always told me repeatedly and very loudly that she loved me like her daughter but it was odd, I never felt she was genuine.

She completely ignored my wishes for DD's care on these days - I brought her food, she binned it and made something else. Non organic, never any vegetables and loads of salt. She co slept with DD against my express wishes at nap times, took her to visit/be passed around her friends and family without asking or even telling me until after the event. She refused to let me say goodbye to DD in the mornings, always pulling her away or walking into another room telling me to 'just go, it's ok'. In the evenings when I went to collect I was put under pressure to let DD stay the night and for me to come back in the morning. I did this once, and the next day they really pressured me into leaving DD for another night. I cried the whole of the second night but felt I couldn't say no. DH, his mum, dad and sisters were all telling me I should enjoy the break and let my poor MIL have some time with her GD.

After about a year I stopped the childcare arrangements, I finally got the courage up. I suffered huge fallouts with her family after this. SIL asking why I was taking DD away from MIL etc. MIL was distraught and cried for weeks. Even though she was still seeing DD 2-3 times a week, doing her baths, dinner time, bedtime story, bottle.

I hope you're still with me ... Almost there! An ongoing problem is that my MIL never ever says 'no' to my DD. My DD could hit her or say something rude, and she says 'that's ok darling!'. I have asked my MIL repeatedly not to do this but she ignores me. DD cottoned on to GM being a soft touch when she was about 18months, and always behaves badly as soon as we are in her presence. This means I have to be really strict and really discipline DD in front of my MIL. I hate doing this because my MIL takes this to mean I don't have a positive or close relationship with my daughter. She has said this to my SIL.

So in the end, all of this history has resulted in me feeling as though I didn't and still haven't bonded well with my DD. I was so stressed and upset by all the emotional blackmail from my MIL in the first year and it still lingers on today. I feel my MIL thinks she is closer to my DD than I am. My DD flocks to her which makes me feel worse. I know this is partly because MIL never says 'no', not even to 4 bags of crisps or 10 biscuits! DD is told it's 'their little secret' and not to tell mummy.

Now I have another baby on the way and feel anxious and scared about my MIL taking advantage again when I am vulnerable post birth. Every member of DH's family believe my MIL is the best mother/GM in the world. I feel she has manipulated me, knowing there are no maternal GP's around to challenge her. If I say no to her, she cries or goes all quiet and tearfully tells me she just wants to help and loves me like a daughter.

I can see clearly what she did when I had my DD now, and I feel so much anger towards her that I don't even want her to spend any time with my DD or even cuddle my new baby.

How do I get over this? Telling her is not an option. As I've said if she is refused she cries and tells me she loves me.

I'm sorry this is the longest opening thread ever. Felt I needed to write it all down for clarity.

my IL's do see me as a lower class than them same here

I had some family issues when met them, and that has coloured all their thinking of me.

They have never asked me properly about my life or family or background they are not interested and talk to everyone like we should all be like them.

They are very proud of what they have achieved in life and want everyone to know it.

We are total failures in their minds. I have never ever met such narrow minded brain washed people who are so obsessed with money.

IAmSlave our IL's are identical.

Here's another slightly odd thing my MIL does. She buys me birthday cards which say 'Daughter' and then has a stash of little letter stickers which she uses to add the words 'in law' to the front design of the card. Just so I don't forget ... I know in normal circs that could be seen as her just trying to be sensitive to me but in these circs I can't help feeling it's to slight me. I always buy her Mother, not Mother In Law cards!

Firstly I have rtft but my honest opinion is the only way your going to stop this is to move, a 3-4 hr drive should give you the space you require

No, adding stick-on "in law"s to "daughter" cards would not be seen as normal or sensitive under any circumstances. It's a nasty little bit of point-scoring. Really, if you can't find a "daughter in law" card you like and don't see the birthday girl as a daughter - you buy a non-specific card.

I think you should stop with the "mother" cards!!

I think you should buy some "in law" stickers and put them on her card.

I'd go one better than that and reuse her stickers!

You shouldn't be upsetting yourself at this time. Sit your husband down and say you don't want to cause upset because it isn't good for the baby. However you are depending on him to help,you sort this out. Then present yourself as the person in charge, completely your own person. To hell with all the In laws. Smile, look placid and appear to take no notice. Tell the silly, selfish, manipulating old woman that the baby is yours and you want to make all the decisions. If she cries tell her that you can't talk to her when she puts on that act. Pity you can't get younger members of family onside.
Best of luck.

There would be something very satisfying about reusing the In-law stickers, Goldmandra

But honestly, wtf is that all about!!? It really smacks of point-scoring.

OP I thought I had MIL problems!

The letter to Mr Rosebear is good, use it! Show him this thread.

Yesterday I had a row with my MIL after she'd been trying to control how I look after ds2 and trying to take him off me all the time (3 months old) and telling ds1 (9) to keep secrets from me. She said "You seem to think they're your kids. They're not. They're mine too. They belong to us all."
No. They don't. And I told her in no uncertain terms. She also told me it wasn't important I bond with my baby, he'd still love me anyway. (this was in reply to how she totally ruined my first weeks with him. Long story, similar to yours but not nearly as bad).

Anyway. I'm not sure you'll ever get a MIL like this to agree to your way of thinking but it doesn't matter. She doesn't have to agree she just has to get over it. Be strong. Speak to your hv about it and your dh really really really has to be on your side. He has to. This isn't fair on you or on your children. I really feel for you

If the SILs say anything you could always point out that they have had more than enough time to produce children to hand over to their mother so she can pretend she gave birth to their children if they love her so much.

The whole thing screams of something more than abuse. Are you certain there hasn't been some sort of incest/abuse going on.

What you FIL does and says to your dd really rings bells of something more. Maybe that is the reason that their only 2 daughters have not married/had children maybe they know what would happen if they did.

I would really see the keeping secrets no matter how small at this stage is a giant red flag for me. I would always be wondering if they were just testing your dd with small secrets to see if she could be trusted before what she was keeping secrets about got bigger.
The whole thing leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

Yje faster you get Dh into some sort of counciling the better, the inlaws are messing with your child's head with the going off to other rooms, asking who she loves more. It's very unsettling and confusing for a child and needs to stop.

and lots of sympathy. Your mil and family) sounds horrible. A adult woman with no mh issues should be able to accept a 'no' without braking down in tears, which is emotional blackmail. Where is grandad a in al this?

OP, are you quite young? Is this why she feels she can take over walk all over you?

Could you try and breastfed dc2? This way she cannot 'get to him' as easily and it is, of course, the best start for your baby too...

Small babies need to bond with their primary career. Giving your dc to mil so often during the early days could possibly interfere with this attachment period.

Could you talk to your Hv get all the support you need? You need to develop your own confidence. No matter how much experience mil has, you are the mother and it is your turn. I have found that the first gc often challenges the existing family hierarchies and that some gps are very reluctant indeed to give up ther role of 'boss'.

Well your mil is not the boss here, you and your dh are. Talk to dh too of course. I hope he will change his attitude and be more supportive of his own newly baked family.

Perhaps you are associating your daughter with the distress you have suffered rather than your mil 's traits. Keep going. Keep loving. You will win now your husband is willing to help. I bet he understands but men hate wives and mothers battling. Hard luck. This is serious. If all else fails and she continues this stupid crying threaten to move far away.

What you FIL does and says to your dd really rings bells of something more. Maybe that is the reason that their only 2 daughters have not married/had children - I'm inclined to agree this could be a possibility. Wasn't sure whether to post in support; it's a bit much to ask DH to think of if he reads this thread.

What it still boils down to is abnormally intrusive grandparents, and Mr Rosebear's mission to take charge of his own family relationships as a father, instead of being overwhelmed by his mum and dad.

If he's feeling brave enough, he could try gently asking his sisters - but I wouldn't hold out too much hope, as they're willing enough to send their little niece into private conversations with their dad.

Happydaysarehere, I think you might be onto something. Perhaps I do associate my DD with the negative and bad feelings I would get when my MIL was near us. I think I do .... god that's horrible and I'm in tears. My beautiful little girl. It's not her fault. I want to talk to a counsellor too, this is something I need to talk about and fully understand.

Being positive, my DH and I had a heart to heart this morning. He admits he doesn't want to face a lot of this. He finds it easier to stand up to his Dad than his mum because his mum will go cold on him and that's hard to bear. I told him what I saw, I said counselling, for both of us and for him alone. He agrees, we will get started with it this week. He has suppressed anger for his mother for not protecting him from dad's physical abuse. Very painful to go there and I understand. But no matter what, we both agree we have to do all we can to keep our little family happy and healthy and not repeat history.

As far as SIL concerned, there have been no relationships nor anyone introduced to the family in the time I have known them. I don't believe my SIL has ever introduced a man to her Dad. No one would be good enough. But then strangely I remember her Dad has set her up on 2-3 dates with sons of his friends. I don't think there has been any abuse other than the hitting when they were kids/teens, the verbal put downs, the emotional blackmail (you can never leave home and leave us, that sort of thing). Another thing, my FIL believes (or pretends to believe) his DD is a virgin.

The breast feeding has been mentioned a few times. I did BF for about 2-3 months, but MIL would do an expressed bottle at 6pm. Also from as early as the first couple of weeks I was doing a bottle of formula at 11pm which I thought helped DD have a longer sleep through the night. So it wasn't completely odd for her to have an expressed bottle. She was a very essy baby and switched between bottled and breast without too much fuss. Eventually she became disinterested in working so hard with BF and preferred bottles. I didn't know half of what I know now about BFing and can see how I could have done things differently. My MIL often used to say oh look she's looking for my breast to feed her when she held her. It used to make my stomach turn to hear her say that, I just thought it was such a twisted thought to have.

Wow. Just wow. Sorry you had to deal with all this crp when you'd just given birth. You AND your husband need the boundaries there. He needs to establish that there will be no visitors round at yours after the birth. You need to focus on the birth, not all this crp. He needs to have your back.

What a horrendous woman. Don't let her issues steal any more of your family's precious time together. It's not as bad as your situation, but my mum has the potential to overstep boundaries and punish through withdrawal. If you've spent your childhood trying to please, this can cause such anxiety and sadness. In case it helps, I'll explain how I deal with it.

I emotionally distance myself from DM, so it matters less if she's nice or not. (To do this I needed counselling to discover who I was when I wasn't trying to be the DD she wanted. That was exhausting but helpful). I'm careful to keep contact with my DM to certain times in the week (usually once a week) and I try not to dwell on the difficulties at other times. That way, I don't feel as if my life is being stolen. When DM is seeing my DD, I try to put some effort into what they do together - beach, feeding the ducks followed by icecream, interesting train journey with jigsaws....'. We take lots of good photographs and send them to DPs straight away (and to everyone else in the family via email). My DH and I work hard to build a life of our own that reflects our own values, with our own social circle and traditions. We don't automatically spend significant days with grandparents, as we're expected to, because our DD needs to know that we can also have fun celebrating as a family in our own home. In your situation, it seems crucial that you enjoy happy times on your own with DD. If it was me, I would compartmentalise things in my mind and think, 'Tuesdays mornings are the only time I share DD with MIL. That's DD's chance to be a granddaughter. The rest of the time she's a daughter and entirely mine and DH's.'

I had to learn to be assertive in counselling, and to deal with feelings that I was being bad or selfish in not complying with DM's every whim. I also had to learn that her emotions were not my responsibility to fix (provided I had acted in a way that was reasonable!). I had to learn not to see my DM as a pathetic figure who deserved everything she wants. I also had to learn to recognise behaviour that was manipulative, and meet this firmly but kindly, in a way I was happy with. Eg., saying: 'Not this time, thanks/That's my job I'm afraid/It's not up for discussion so let's not spoil the lovely time we've had/It's mummy time now/DD needs mummy now'....

Once I started saying things like this, I found myself withdrawn from. Like you, I found it painful to lose good relationships with other family members, who believed my DM must have good reasons for being so sad. My DM began to neatly circumvent me altogether, buttonholing my DH in corners to cry, 'I only want to help/don't know what I've done/can't sleep'. At first, DH founds this very sad but he then began to feel it was mostly an act. He was firm and kept saying, 'You'll have to speak to thicket because this is inappropriate.' After that, we found ourselves being cornered by my DF, who would emphasise DM's deep emotional pain and his own pain at seeing her so abused... We smiled sympathetically and said there was no need for such drama our DD saw her grandparents every week. So he withdrew disapprovingly too. It's the price you pay. Once the initial panic had passed, I began to appreciate the serenity.

My parents will always think, they've been treated very badly. They'll always moan to family members and family friends about 'Thicket's issues'. But it doesn't matter because we have our family and we're looking forward to the future. We've offered my parents access; what they make of that is up to them.

One more thing. We've recently learnt that one of my parents will die soon. Despite how difficult things have been, there was a lot about my childhood that I'm thankful for and it's difficult. I value the photographs now and take comfort from knowing I made time for the weekly visits, however much aggro they caused me privately. I'm glad we were able to offer them something, even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

Good luck, OP :)

Ewww that's gross! Re... Well I don't even want to repeat it, just GROSS.

Silly cow!

It'll be so good to clear the decks of this malign influence and reclaim your family - which is, and always been, YOURS.

NOT HERS

Yours is very similar to my story with my dd1, except that I put my foot down from the offset. Not saying this was the right thing to do,

I am so sorry it's crap. My MIL was the exact same. Did some horrendous unforgivable stuff, I could write a book with the horrors. It went on for years till my DH stood up to her. I also got tougher. The worse she was the less she saw her GC. I didn't answer the door unless we had arranged for her to come. She hated this.

DH insisted she had to acknowledge me in my own home and not just snatch DC. Before that she ignored me.

Amazingly many years on we get on although she still can be domineering it is nowhere near as bad. Things only changed when DH realised he would loose us if he carried on putting MIL first and stood up to her. We also only let them visit once a month whilst things were very awkward. Also MIL tried to get DC alome or with DH but we refused as she had to accept us all. She eventually has but it took about ten years!

I am still fed up when I look back at the way she treated me, some of it was horrific. Eg telling me to abort DD1 and offering to 'go halves' on it, trying to ruin my wedding, inviting people to my stillborn DD's funeral when I couldn't face anyone, buying junk for my birthday and old lady dresses either massively smaller or bigger than my size. and other things.

sorry posted by accident! Not saying this was the right thing to do as it caused a MASSIVE and ongoing problem between me and my DH family, but I couldn't not have done anything. I too am really traumatised by the 1st year, and another post on here that says you really remember bad stuff that happens within the first few weeks of birth is very true, I will never forget what my MIL said to me and my parents. However, life has to go on and I have found a way to ignore the crap she comes out with, try and look for good points in her and to make sure she only spends the minimum of time with my dd on MY terms. It all blew up again when my dd was 8 months and I had to tell her I would leave my DH if she carried on/didn't accept that what she had done was wrong, she has got a lot better since then! And it wasn't blackmail, it was the truth, as much as I love my DH I value my relationship with my daughter and my parents just a much and that was being threatened. A lot of posts on here say it's your DH fault and he needs to man up, to a point yes but this can also cause major friction, and it's the relationship between you and your MIL that needs sorting. I am now expecting my dc2 in February and have the same worried as you, but this time I have the measure of the MIL and I'm gonna be one step ahead of her. It's always the MIL that will lose out, you stick to your guns and make sure you DH always backs you up. When you have to lay the law down, make sure you tell the MIL it what you and DH have decided, or if she asks you stuff, refer to DH, they are his children too and it's his mother! Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, my heart goes out to you xx

Tell her to fuck off she sounds like a nasty manipulative ass hole. Sorry but your story has made me so angry (for you)! Dont let her push you around this time. Play her at her own game. That failing move away!

This is almost exactly the same situation I had with my first child.
I hope it all worked out fine in the end. Sincerely.

I would do anything I could to get away from that. I would never, ever, let anyone pressure me into leaving my child with them.

It sounds like a devastating situation but you need to take ownership and do something, your husband is weak. It will be uncomfortable but it will be worth it.