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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to keep my maiden name?

382 replies

Mitzimaybe · 03/08/2014 11:21

My DP wants me to take his surname when we get married next year. It's traditional and he says if I keep my own name that means I want to keep my independence, so we might as well not get married.

I think it's a leftover from a patriarchal society where the bride ceased to be the property of her father and became the property of her husband, and it has no place in our modern, equal relationship.

I'd appreciate any replies that would help him see my point of view, (not just LTB!)

N.B. We are not young and won't have any children, if that makes any difference.

OP posts:
Igggi · 05/08/2014 15:31

It involves choice, it's not about choice. I have heard people say feminism is all about women making whatever choices they want to.
I don't think feminism has won when young women get to make the choice to become lap dancers, or surrendered wives, or to make blonde jokes. I wouldn't take that choice away from them, but it's not a victory for feminism.
Feminism is about equality, not choice. Part of the goal for feminism is surely to change the status quo so that women can make genuinely free choices - where it will be viewed by society as not mattering if a woman changes her name or not, for example. That is not the case today.

Original poster
Mitzimaybe · 05/08/2014 15:35

It's like I said earlier - he'd just always assumed that I would. And I no doubt contributed to that assumption when someone new joined at work called something very close to Mitzi Hisname and I said, as a joke, let's get married now and I can have some fun confusing everyone with Mitzi Hisname and almost-Mitzi almost-Hisname working in the same department. It was a joke but probably led him to believe I wanted to take his name.

Since our big discussion on Sunday morning he's gone away to think about it and we haven't discussed it further yet. He's aware of this thread and might or might not be reading it.

Generally speaking we are good at compromising in our relationship and I expect we will work things out eventually.

OP posts:
Nomama · 05/08/2014 15:44

Ah! I agree with that, it isn't about choice in that sense. But would add /clarify that feminism is about women being free to make whatever choices they see fit without being judged as 'less than' because of them (which is why I was snarky upthread).

We are closer than we were when I was a kid and Margo Leadbetter was still the woman to be, in many circles.

Sometimes I wonder if the 'ladette' culture won't be the breakthrough - maybe not in the way I had ever envisioned... but in a wholly 21st century way.

JulesJules · 05/08/2014 15:50

I did not change my name, the children have my name as their surname with DH's surname as a middle name.

Marriage really is nothing to do with what name you choose to use.

Also, when I got married over 20 years ago, the vicar said they didn't usually include the 'giving away' bit in the wedding ceremony any more as it was old fashioned and irrelevant.

Igggi · 05/08/2014 16:08

Margo! Grin Better than June from Terry and June. I remember an episode where a friend of theirs got a job and much aggro and hilarity ensued. In the happy ending she gave up the job Hmm

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 05/08/2014 16:10

The church dropped "obey" from their standard vows in 1922. Traditions change.

BomChickaMeowMeow · 05/08/2014 17:47

I just went for what I found to be the easiest option in the long run. Yes, changing over documents at the beginning is a fair bit of admin, but I didn't mind that. I would mind people getting confused as to whether my children are indeed my children, wondering whether I'm married to their father, or if he is the dad of one, both or any of them.

Plus the fact our surnames together is the name of a well-known actor. I didn't want that joke being made by all and sundry forever and a day.

BomChickaMeowMeow · 05/08/2014 17:54

^It involves choice, it's not about choice. I have heard people say feminism is all about women making whatever choices they want to.
I don't think feminism has won when young women get to make the choice to become lap dancers, or surrendered wives, or to make blonde jokes. I wouldn't take that choice away from them, but it's not a victory for feminism.
Feminism is about equality, not choice. Part of the goal for feminism is surely to change the status quo so that women can make genuinely free choices - where it will be viewed by society as not mattering if a woman changes her name or not, for example. That is not the case today.^

But that doesn't really work. We only get to have the Correct Feminist "Choice" until at some point in the future, the Grand High Feminist says "We have achieved gender equality. Now you may choose freely."

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/08/2014 17:57

Ah I see Iggi.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 05/08/2014 18:04

I would mind people getting confused as to whether my children are indeed my children, wondering whether I'm married to their father, or if he is the dad of one, both or any of them

None of that has ever happened to me, at least to my face. And I don't care what people might be wondering behind my back.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 05/08/2014 18:08

Yeah, me neither, Ehric.

motherinferior · 05/08/2014 18:15

Well, you could always have given your children your name. Or both. Neither exactly a daringly outre choice of action.

But in any case, nobody I know has ever been asked if her children aren't hers, even if they have different surnames. In reality, too, people tend to assume you are married, not the other way around. Irritates the hell out of me, but most people refer to Mr Inferior as 'my husband'.

Igggi · 05/08/2014 18:19

But that doesn't really work. We only get to have the Correct Feminist "Choice" until at some point in the future, the Grand High Feminist says "We have achieved gender equality. Now you may choose freely."

Could someone explain this for me please, it really doesn't make any sense to me Confused

Nomama · 05/08/2014 18:23

I'm working on it...

BomChickaMeowMeow · 05/08/2014 18:43

Gah, MN ate my response. I basically said I'm wasn't saying all those things would definitely happen, or that families who don't all have the same name are Wrong, but a part of me is a petit bourgeois traditionalist and ten years ago it was important to me to do the traditional thing.

BomChickaMeowMeow · 05/08/2014 18:47

On the point about feminism I was trying to say you have a circular argument if feminism is not about choice and only about equality. If it isn't about choice you are only swapping one set of hard and fast rules for another set.

Nomama · 05/08/2014 18:56

Ah, I get that too. And I think that's where me and today's feminism have parted company. There do seem to be a lot more 'right answers' these days.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 05/08/2014 19:01

Just because a choice is made by a woman doesn't make it a feminist choice.

Just because a choice is made by a Green Party voter doesn't make it an environmentally friendly choice.

Bom, would you agree with the latter and, if so, what's illogical about the former?

Nomama · 05/08/2014 19:01

OMG - today's feminism and I...

squizita · 05/08/2014 19:34

I'm a bit puzzled at how outside MN, the issue of a certain group of women deciding what 'is/isn't feminist' is well known (referred to via a number of methods but usually meaning middle class, educated, some issues with internalised sexism creating a neo-patriarchy ... which leads to a lot of debate as to whether this is a sub issue around education, snobbery and culture). On MN boards, people act as if this debate doesn't exist when challenged.
It's a huge debate.

But one aspect that does stand true: bar certain very clear cut examples, it is n't that easy to say "this is a feminist choice and that isn't". Why is mindlessly dragging on your father's-father's-father's name inherently feminist compared to choosing your partner's name, for example?
Many choices which seem on the surface to be clearly feminist are actually tied up in how the patriarchy expect a feminist to behave: or to put it another way, are a product of internalised sexism ('weak females do x, so I MUST do y'). There is no effort to engage with the signified meanings, to re-frame, to re-claim.
It skirts dangerously close to, eventually (and in the hands of inexperienced younger women) 'if I act more masculine I will be feminist' which of course further serves the patriarchy's ideas, puts people off and more seriously internalises sexist messages about how you have to do certain things to be 'feminist' (which you do, but not that simplistically- you don't have to choose to act 'less female' - rather reclaim and reframe).

prettybird · 05/08/2014 19:35

Ehric - exactly! :)

I don't give a flying f whether people think I'm married or not - that's their problem. And I've always been closely enough involved with ds' school (even when I was working full time) for them to know that I was ds' parent even though I have a different name to him. Dh likewise.

Actually, his bugbear was always that the school's Parent Council was always complaining about lack of representation from the Asian communities (60% of the school intake) - and he would point out that they should be just as concerned about the lack of representation from 50% of "Parent Forum", ie the Men. That's sort of reverse Feminism - when it is just as important that the dads are involved in their kids' education as the mums.

MorrisZapp · 05/08/2014 22:07

Squizita, it's because you've lived your whole life with your fathers name, and it is therefore your own name.

Changing it to your partners name, while totally up to the individual, is not a feminist choice.

Keeping your own identity doesn't strike me as a particularly feminist act, just a normal and obvious one but then maybe as a feminist I think differently to many other women.

MorrisZapp · 05/08/2014 22:09

And I've never once had any confusion over who my son belongs to.

And I've never met a man who has changed his name to his partners for any of the reasons given above (convenience, nicer name, less hassle etc).

Not saying they don't exist but it can't be coincidence that it's always womens names that are just easier to drop.

ShoeWhore · 05/08/2014 23:42

I was thinking that too Morris.

"I changed my name when I married because I didn't like it and it had negative associations"

Said no man ever.

Never been any question that my dcs are mine btw.

Chiana · 06/08/2014 14:48

I have met a few gay couples where both partners have taken double barrelled names. But straight guys who are willing to hyphenate or give up their name? Not a one, even those who are estranged from their fathers.

I never considered hyphenation for either of us. I wasn't willing to give up the name I'd carried for 28 years, period. Despite the fact that my dad and I were estranged. Nobody has ever been confused or thought my DC weren't mine just because we have different names.